Still no supervision in the French and Spanish forums?

[Claudio_González1]

I forgot that threads are extremely short lived in this forum, and the discussion that really began within an unrelated thread, here

Pierre Courtejoie, "Shouldn't these links be removed as soon as possible?" #8, 27 Feb 2005 1:21 pm

has already gone to the Archives, where it is in danger of going to the limbus in the near future.

I still think that this is an important issue, and still wait to see any improvement in those forums showing that the messages by Pierre and myself on the subject have not fallen in a void. Although we both value and thank Neil Keller for his attempts to get some reaction in higher quarters, his attempts have unfortunately been a failure.

It is pathetic to see pages in the forums in Spanish with templates that are written in a mixture of English and a very bad Spanish. It is even more pathetic that JC stopped more than a year ago feeling authorized to introduce any non trivial change to improve this situation. The worst part is however to feel that there is no one listening, or at least willing to admit that there might be problems in those forums.

I feel very disappointed.

[Guest]

Kath-H wrote:

If not, perhaps you need to find the person in charge of the Adobe Spain site and get them to change the link.

You can't be serious! How could this be a user's responsibility???!!!! How about a Community Expert, qualified only in forum administration, gets off his/her bum and does it?

I would think that a Spanish speaking user of that area would have a lot more chance of finding the correct people to contact over there than any one here, other then, perhaps, John... and I think John probably has other priorities. (Tho perhaps he might be able to find Claudio an employee email for someone to communicate with about it.) Hence my suggestion. Claudio is much better placed to have the conversation than I am, that's all. And, no I wasn't joking.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

a Spanish speaking user of that area…

Do you have any idea how many thousands of miles separate Chile from Spain, DK?   

[Guest]

Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

a Spanish speaking user of that area…

Do you have any idea how many thousands of miles separate Chile from Spain, DK?   

So, gee... I wonder whether it should be the folks from the UK or those from the US that shouldn't be part these English forums?!? backatcha

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

backatcha

Ya think?  Looks like it's boomeranging straight back to you—just about a meter over your head. 

[Guest]

Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

backatcha

Ya think?  Looks like it's boomeranging straight back to you—just about a meter over your head. 

Not really. The question is making it easier for Spanish speaking people, wherever they live in the world, to find the forums in Spanish. Geography has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

[Guest]

Don't worry Ramón.   

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Why would I?    

[Guest]

Exactly.  

[John_Levine_IOPHFI_INH]

>Why would I?

Because Dorothy is watching you! <shudder!>

[Guest]

John Levine IOPHFI_INH wrote:

>Why would I?

Because Dorothy is watching you! <shudder!>

If that is the worst thing you have to worry about, I'd say you don't have any problems at all.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

a lot more chance of finding the correct people to contact over there than any one here, other then, perhaps, John…

One correct usage out of two is an improvement, I suppose. 

[Claudio_González1]

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

Kath-H wrote:

If not, perhaps you need to find the person in charge of the Adobe Spain site and get them to change the link.

You can't be serious! How could this be a user's responsibility???!!!! How about a Community Expert, qualified only in forum administration, gets off his/her bum and does it?

I would think that a Spanish speaking user of that area would have a lot more chance of finding the correct people to contact over there than any one here, other then, perhaps, John... and I think John probably has other priorities. (Tho perhaps he might be able to find Claudio an employee email for someone to communicate with about it.) Hence my suggestion. Claudio is much better placed to have the conversation than I am, that's all. And, no I wasn't joking.

Dorothy, I would have absolutely no problem in sending Adobe Spain an email saying the following in Spanish:

To: Adobe Spain

From: Claudio González

Subject: Suggested change in your website

If I go to www.adobe.com/es/, and select Support > Forums, I am taken to a page written fully in English and with no provision for changing to Spanish. If I click on the icon of any of the products shown, I am taken to the related forums in English. If I don't give up and continue exploring the page, I may notice that there is one item called INTERNATIONAL FORUMS, and I may understand this means FOROS INTERNACIONALES. And if I click on that, I am given the following options: France, Germany, Japan, and Spain. Provided that I am clever enough to understand that Spain means España and click on that although I don't live in Spain but in a South American Spanish speaking country, I am finally taken where I wanted to go: a products forum completely in Spanish, where I can post my question and hopefully also receive an answer in my own language.

May I suggest a change that could make life easier for Spanish speaking users of Adobe products who are looking for help in using them and don't know any English? In my opinion, it would be much better if, when clicking on Support > Forums, one were offered just the two following choices:

Forums in Spanish

Forums in English and some other languages.

Choosing the first should take the user here:

http://forums.adobe.com/community/international_forums/espanol?view=discussions

and choosing the second, here:

http://forums.adobe.com/index.jspa

This way, all users would know from the beginning that they can hope to obtain help in Spanish if they don't know any English.

Sincerely,

Claudio González.

However, at my age I have had plenty of chances of trying to contact a large international company this way, and I have sound reasons to believe that it would be a complete waste of time. Such a message has absolutely no probability of being read by a person intelligent enough to realize that its contents may not be unimportant, and also knows to whom to redirect it.

No, Dorothy, any such change can only be achieved if attempted from within the company. Or maybe also from the outside, but only if fostered by some very influential member of the company.Without any disrespect to JC, I think that even him is not influential enough.

Addition: I have just realized that it may be easier to offer the two propossed alternatives in the pulldown menu itself.

Message was edited by: Claudio González, more than an hour after posting. Reason: addition.

[Guest]

Claudio González wrote:

Dorothy, I would have absolutely no problem in sending Adobe Spain an email saying the following in Spanish:

To: Adobe Spain

From: Claudio González

Subject: Suggested change in your website

If I go to www.adobe.com/es/, and select Support > Forums, I am taken to a page written fully in English and with no provision for changing to Spanish. If I click on the icon of any of the products shown, I am taken to the related forums in English. If I don't give up and continue exploring the page, I may notice that there is one item called INTERNATIONAL FORUMS, and I may understand this means FOROS INTERNACIONALES. And if I click on that, I am given the following options: France, Germany, Japan, and Spain. Provided that I am clever enough to understand that Spain means España and click on that although I don't live in Spain but in a South American Spanish speaking country, I am finally taken where I wanted to go: a products forum completely in Spanish, where I can post my question and hopefully also receive an answer in my own language.

May I suggest a change that could make life easier for Spanish speaking users of Adobe products who are looking for help in using them and don't know any English? In my opinion, it would be much better if, when clicking on Support > Forums, one were offered just the two following choices:

Forums in Spanish

Forums in English and some other languages.

Choosing the first should take the user here:

http://forums.adobe.com/community/international_forums/espanol?view=discussions

and choosing the second, here:

http://forums.adobe.com/index.jspa

This way, all users would know from the beginning that they can hope to obtain help in Spanish if they don't know any English.

Sincerely,

Claudio González.

However, at my age I have had plenty of chances of trying to contact a large international company this way, and I have sound reasons to believe that it would be a complete waste of time. Such a message has absolutely no probability of being read by a person intelligent enough to realize that its contents may not be unimportant, and also knows to whom to redirect it.

No, Dorothy, any such change can only be achieved if attempted from within the company. Or maybe also from the outside, but only if fostered by some very influential member of the company.Without any disrespect to JC, I think that even him is not influential enough.

Addition: I have just realized that it may be easier to offer the two propossed alternatives in the pulldown menu itself.

Message was edited by: Claudio González, more than an hour after posting. Reason: addition.

Let's get it to John and ask him to send it to the correct folks. I'm late leaving work tho, so I'm not going to do it at least until I get home. But thanks for writing the note to send... that's the hard part.

[Claudio_González1]

Incidentally, two regulars from "the other side" have recently appeared briefly in the new forums in Spanish.

I cannot be completely certain that these two are the only ones, because almost everyone there used NNTP and therefore their names became just "Newsgroup_User", so I have to rely on my recollections of the most frequent names there. However, I am positive that these two are old timers from the "ex-MM" forums, not only for their names, but also for the contents of their messages.

What I find particularly curious is that these two are acting almost as snipers. In other words, they come, post a message, and don't reply to subsequent messages. And I would say that none of the two seems to show any intention of becoming a regular of these new forums. This worries me, because we seem to have lost a very active and not at all small community.

[Guest]

Jacob Bugge wrote:

So this thread survived the journey through the abyss.

But of course. It was and is part of the comments forum, which transferred everything.

[Jacob Bugge]

It is early this year: time to enjoy the frailness of the cherry blossom.

[Claudio_González1]

Falling leaves around here, although it's also time to enjoy them.

Don't ask me why or how, buy new people (still very few!) are coming to the forums in Spanish. Some of them even seem to be becoming normal and active regulars. So there may be hope...

[Jacob Bugge]

This thread has been sinking fast. The change has certainly increased participation in this forum, much o the detriment of others, as you have pointed out elsewhere, Claudio.

[Claudio_González1]

Jacob Bugge wrote:

This thread has been sinking fast. The change has certainly increased participation in this forum, much o the detriment of others, as you have pointed out elsewhere, Claudio.

Thank you, Jacob, you are now a better guardian of this thread than I.

Sadly, I am spending most of my time in these forum testing and reporting, and also vainly pouring a little oil over stormy waters, trying to regain rationality on some discussions. More sadly, the Comments forum is nowadays looking almost like an expanded twin of the darker side of the L****. Or like the preliminaries of the December presidential election here, where candidates and most politicians spend most of their time throwing mud to the other side, and nerly none in saying what they pretend to do if they gain the election...

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Claudio González wrote:

Jacob Bugge wrote:

…The change has certainly increased participation in this forum, much to the detriment of others…

More sadly, the Comments forum is nowadays looking almost like an expanded twin of the darker side of the L****.

Both of those thoughts cross my mind often these days too.

[Claudio_González1]

I wonder if we are the only three who have

noticed that the Comments forum has deteriorated

so much that it's beginning to stink...

[Guest]

The outlook is so bleak that a little bit of flippancy now and then serves to lighten the mood a bit.

That's how we got through the London Blitz.

[Kath-H]

Speak for yourself, old codger I came in on the tail end of rationing but thankfully after the bombs.

[Claudio_González1]

John Joslin wrote:

The outlook is so bleak that a little bit of flippancy now and then serves to lighten the mood a bit.

That's how we got through the London Blitz.

John, I have always admired the Britons for the many and almost unbelievable ways they used to keep up their spirits through the Second World War. However, this is not the SWW, just a set of very useful forums that have been ruined; and we are not talking about "a little bit of flippancy", but of an increasingly agressive attitude that prevents a serious discussion of anything. As an example, take a look at how many on the too many posters in the Ghandi thread have made any mention to the spirit of the original post.

I think this discussion deserves a special thread, but this is not a good time of the day -or of the week- for me to do anything about it. If none of you has done anything in 4-5 hours, I may open a new thread for it.

[Jacob Bugge]

Alas, time to fight a beauty, less time for forums.