Still no supervision in the French and Spanish forums?

[Claudio González]

I forgot that threads are extremely short lived in this forum, and the discussion that really began within an unrelated thread, here

Pierre Courtejoie, "Shouldn't these links be removed as soon as possible?" #8, 27 Feb 2005 1:21 pm

has already gone to the Archives, where it is in danger of going to the limbus in the near future.

I still think that this is an important issue, and still wait to see any improvement in those forums showing that the messages by Pierre and myself on the subject have not fallen in a void. Although we both value and thank Neil Keller for his attempts to get some reaction in higher quarters, his attempts have unfortunately been a failure.

It is pathetic to see pages in the forums in Spanish with templates that are written in a mixture of English and a very bad Spanish. It is even more pathetic that JC stopped more than a year ago feeling authorized to introduce any non trivial change to improve this situation. The worst part is however to feel that there is no one listening, or at least willing to admit that there might be problems in those forums.

I feel very disappointed.

[Chris Cox]

The download server was a very special case.

[Claudio González]

Hello Chris,

Is this also?

[Chris Cox]

No, the forums are handled quite differently.

[PECourtejoie]

Differently, as "Different" in Forrest Gump? (speaking about the localized ones...

There are many threads that would need to be splitted (unrelated questions, etc.)

[Chris Cox]

No, different as in "someone is actually in charge of the forums and we didn't lay off all the poeple who were involved in maintaining the site".

[Claudio González]

It seems I was far too brief in my previous question, so here I go again:

Is the French and Spanish forums case also a "very special case"?

And if I may explain my reason for askinkg: I have not seen a single post saying "the matter is been taken care of" or the like. On the contrary, Neil Keller's efforts -the only ones after this discussion started that I know of- have been unsuccessful, according to his own words.

[Ramón G Castañeda]

Chris,
>"someone is actually in charge of the forums and we didn't lay off all the poeple who were involved in maintaining the site"

If I understand that correctly, it's hilariously funny. 🙂 Really.

[PECourtejoie]

So, somebody will be able to delete post 5 in this thread? (the guy demanding to download photoshop for free?)
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?128@@.3bbc8efb

[Guest]

My limited French does indicate that it was inappropriate at least, so it's been set aside.

[PECourtejoie]

So, someone here does have access to the French speaking forum? I thought nobody had access anymore!
Then should we point here the threads that should be splitted, moved, etc? Could we have per-application forums, it would be way better to filter what app people have a problem with.
What about getting an FAQ set up?

[Guest]

That's a whole step beyond taking simple moderation action, Pierre! There's a whole lot of difference between being a moderator (policeman if you like) and being a host (which at best really means just that - certainly a very proactive role).

[PECourtejoie]

I was half ironic, half serious in the second part of my message.
First, I'm glad that there is a way for someone here to nuke some posts. But, then, I really wonder if someone "here" still has admin powers to the localized ones, to do the suggested actions

[Guest]

> First, I'm glad that there is a way for someone here to nuke some posts.

I imagine that other hosts have the technical power as well as myself but it is a bit tricky to be quite sure of one's ground when dealing with a language with which one is not very familiar. Hence the post to which you kindly drawn attention has been not so much nuked as parked out of sight!

[Claudio González]

Hello Oz,

I'm glad for your interest in this subject, which I thank and hope it lasts.

For forums without moderators or hosts who speak the language, such as the French and Spanish ones, I can visualize only two ways of dealing with troublesome issues:

1. Do nothing and let the natives to sort things out as well as they can. This seems to be the norm nowadays, and in most cases it works surprisingly well in the Spanish forums.

2. Trust people like Pierre and myself when we do post here because we feel that some action beyond our powers is needed. For my part at least, this has worked when I have posted as a last resource, but there seem to be some people who do not trust me, which is not pleasant, as you can see in previous posts in this same thread.

There is of course a third way: to deal directly with JC, but I somehow feel he doesn't want in the least to have to act as moderator or host. Not to mention that he seems to feel inhibited to do much under the present and far from clear circumstances, with Adobe Fenwick officially in charge but doing nothing at all except blocking any possible action.

You have repeatedly shown in these forums to have good ideas to solve complicated problems. I wish you had one for this particular issue. It would make a most welcome Christmas present for French and Spanish speaking people who do not know any English.

[Guest]

> Trust people like Pierre and myself when we do post here because we feel that some action beyond our powers is needed.

Of course it would be my inclination to do so, Claudio, though the final reponsibility for action (or inaction) has to lie with the appointed hosts.

> It would make a most welcome Christmas present for French and Spanish speaking people who do not know any English.

Well, let's see... sadly a full resolution to this is not within my modest power but once again enquiries about the matter will be made further up.

[Claudio González]

Oz, I wasn't asking for any action from you -unfortunately, Neil Keller's previous efforts produced no results, maybe showing that action from well intended moderators/hosts doesn't take us anywhere. I was just wishing you had in this case one of your reputedly brilliant ideas for solving crisis. We are in need of some help and have not obtained any in many, many months.

By the way, you say that

>... the final reponsibility for action (or inaction) has to lie with the appointed hosts.

but the sad truth is that there are none in the French and the Spanish forums. As I have said many times, we have to moderate ourselves, and this is only part of the problem. The other -and major- is Adobe Fenwick.

[Guest]

> the final reponsibility for action (or inaction) has to lie with the appointed hosts

By that I mean specific zapping of anything there brought to the attention of the hosts active in the rest of the forums.

I have to say that by far the best moderation is self-moderation by peer pressure but I do accept that it doesn't always work. It's to the credit of members there if it does manage to function to some extent, without a specific host being active.

[PECourtejoie]

The problem is that most of the members in the French forum fail to find the new topic button. Indeed, in many online forums, a "create new discussion" button is available inside a thread, but not here, the only links are "post a reply", or "back to topic list"(and this one, only in the first post).

It might be a very welcome addition in the US forums. In the French forum, it is very common to find, in a 10 posts thread, 3 different unrelated topics! I do think that native speaking hosts should be appointed in those forums.

[Chris Cox]

I agree that we need some native language hosts.

Unfortunately, it's not up to me.

[PECourtejoie]

One would think that the persons responsible of the forum would visit it from time to time...

[Kath-H]

Who is it up to Chris, do you know? That seems to be part of the problem, no-one knows who to make a request to.

[Claudio González]

Hello, Kath, I hope this thread won't be supressed while I am answering you, as happened not long ago. :-)

Well, it seems that whoever is in charge -sometimes I tend to doubt there is someone- has been extremely efficient in not letting anyone know. That is indeed a very major problem: not knowing whom to ask for permission for translating the Spanish forums to proper Spanish, and to see that everything works as expected and as in the original forums in English.

Another major one seems to be that

>... the best possible thing that could happen would be to find someone that spends time in the spanish forums that has an appropriate temperment that the host team would consider to be a good candidate for joining the team. Until and unless someone is in there with host rights, not much will happen.

The screening process seems to be more than a bit tight, and frankly and unfortunately, I don't see in any of the regulars anyone with the slightest chance of passing that double test: first being considered a good candidate, and second, been allowed to actually join the team. And as nobody with host rights has given any sign of being there in months that are turning to years, of course nothing has happened. I wonder how the host team has being doing the screening process; they also seem to be very secretive about it.

I am glad that this month and for once it didn't have to be me taking this thread afloat before being buried in the Archives and then disappear -as the thread I mention in my opening message.

[PECourtejoie]

Yes, I try to help you help me ;)

[Claudio González]

Pierre, I often feel as if it were only you for the French forums and me for the Spanish ones. :-(

By the way, I discovered some months ago that the German forums had been in operation for quite a long time before ours, which would explain why they are in better shape.

[_Nigel_Moore_]

Only hanging out here waiting for the 100th post :/