This Forum is pathetic, when do we get the old one back?

[Guest]

Well the title sums it up.

[Guest]

Still, the contract probably doesn't say "Adobe MUST use this software for it's forums", if it does let us know, so I can switch to Microsoft Silverlight right now--because it'd be clear Adobe is run by fools..

Probably a better and less emotionally painful route would be to find a GOOD 3rd alternative and simply migrate to that. Adobe should take the heat and absorb any extra costs--you've been played for fools by the Jive salesmen, guys.  That's okay, it happens.  There's going to be major costs ANYWAY with this forum junk because of the required upgrade costs, so why not just switch to something that, you know...actually knows how to keep it's users logged in for longer than a day (or less)? Something that actually...functions at least as well as the old forums did?

[Claudio_González1]

S.D.A. wrote:

Jesus Christ will you frickin get over your self ?!! S. Cox is right you all are acting like spoiled brats. If the forums don't work the way you want, don't use them. No one is forcing you to be here !!

If you really think we are all acting like spoiled brats, I can only think you haven't read all the messages in this thread. In particular, you seem to have missed Jochem's posts #21 and 34, amongst others. Gross generalizations are dangerous, and too often unfair.

Many of us think that the easy way of opting out because Adobe ruined what was an excellent set of forums is not the right attitude. We are making efforts to try to improve what we have, contributing with our reports to try to identify the real causes of each problem. Considering the lack of feedback and of results, it is understandable that more than a few have lost their patience and are voicing their opinions in not the best of languages. I don't justify this, and I belong to the now minority that tries to keep discussions at a civilized level.

I agree with you in that nobody is forcing any of us to be here. Sadly, nobody is encouraging us either to continue in trying to help to patch these new forums that were prematurely forced on us.

Addition: I cordially invite you, and most specially Chris and Dorothy, to read this message by kaguyen:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1945165#1945165

and to pay attention to how much the waters were calmed in the following discussion. We users need and deserve more of kaguyen's attitude, and none of what we have received here.

Message was edited by: Claudio González. Reason: adding an important invitation, nearly 2 hours after originally posting it.

[Kath-H]

I don't think anyone is ignorant of John's heroic struggles Dorothy, nor is there any lack of sympathy. But the bloke can hold his own perfectly well. You're beginning to sound like his mother.

[Guest]

I have noticed a general improvement in the forums recently.  Loading of pages is now faster.  Still not perfect but not so bad.  I actually want to thank those involved with the progress.

And while some may want to be critical of the forums (possibly/probably justified) it is not right to be critical of the those trying to help.

Do keep in mind that many of us really like the forums a lot and are apprehensive of any changes.

[Cezkay]

Chris Cox wrote:

Do you really expect everyone in the world to cater to your every whim instantly?  If so, seek help.

John and others have commented on the useful feedback.  They (and I) are pretty much ignoring the useless kvetching.

Complaints are one thing.  Whining is another.   You've gone squarely into the second category.

The forums team is trying to act on the feedback, but they can't change everything instantly (and sometimes have their hands tied by some marketroid manager who never even looks at the forums).

Jive A$$ Idiot...

Symptomatic of Adobe....

[Phos_four_dots]

Chris Cox wrote:

...Nothing of any relevance

But Ramon nailed it.

It feels like we're yelling down a hole here.

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/428195?tstart=0

[Kath-H]

reshashing of the same old complaints

What do you expect, Chris? Without any news of what is being worked on, can't be done, might be done, whatever - of course people keep complaining, otherwise it might be thought they'd given up and got used to the way things are, and didn't mind any more.

If people stop complaining about certain issues how would you know whether they were still pissed off or had decided to accept the situation?

Apart from anything else, Dorothy has indicated that the squeaky wheels do indeed stand the most chance of getting some grease - how informed that comment was, we don't know, but it sounds reasonable.

More information is the only chance of stifling the complaints.

[Guest]

... and it is well-known that, once people stop complaining, it's only a matter of time before they say, "That's all right then, nothing needed here" – and everything gets set in concrete.

Having said that, apart from the speed – or lack of it – I find there are ways round everything if you use a bit of initiative.

(Without any scripts or blockers!)

I am now comfortable because I am adaptable.

[Kath-H]

I really thought we'd knocked this one on the head. We might 'pay' in kind rather than cash, but we're customers none the less. Most companies realise it's counter-productive to tell your complaining customers to shut up. It's been over a week since we saw that mistake in here, I thought the point had been made.

[Kath-H]

Looking at JC's posts in that Jive forum, the public part at least, he seems to be being met rather too often with 'talk to your account manager' - I hope this doesn't mean that a lot of what we might consider basic functionality isn't going to turn out to be (too) expensive to get fixed.

[Kath-H]

Since no one from Adobe is obligated in the slightest to be here

Oh right, so customer service is an optional extra now? I'd be delighted to let JC get on with it in peace, I'm sure he's doing a  magnificent job as far as he's allowed to - but many people are worried that they have no idea which issues are being worked on, have been given up on, won't happen for x months, or whatever.

[Guest]

Since no one from Adobe is obligated in the slightest to be here it doesn't surprise me in the least that even I have quit responding... or even reading, for the most part. It would be easy to spend entire workdays just trying to communicate in this forum. No thanks.

My comment about squeeky wheels was in reference to new voices, specifically not the same ol' same ol' ones we keep hearing from.

There's also a saying about honey... but in this case, it's mostly about noise levels. It would be better overall if everyone just took a week or so off from the forums and left the poor guy alone to do his work.

[Guest]

Posts like Dorothy's don't help anyone a bit.

We are saving Adobe a lot of money in Indian Rupees by offering free support and, if we are unhappy, she tells us to shut up.

Why don't you shut up Dorothy – you are contributing nothing here!

[Kath-H]

[Kath-H]

This what I mean, a Jive rep talking to JC about his request for a way to 'Search this forum only' - I assume this is entirely public or I couldn't have seen it:

That would be our recommendation, i.e., defer until 3.0 upgrade (or 3.x depending on timeline).  This of course brings up the broader business question of when and if Adobe chooses to upgrade...and this process will require revisitation of lots of aspects that we customized.  Probably best for Adobe to think about this and setup a time to talk about it with your Jive Services Acct Mg

[Guest]

Kath-H wrote:

This what I mean, a Jive rep talking to JC about his request for a way to 'Search this forum only' - I assume this is entirely public or I couldn't have seen it:

That would be our recommendation, i.e., defer until 3.0 upgrade (or 3.x depending on timeline).  This of course brings up the broader business question of when and if Adobe chooses to upgrade...and this process will require revisitation of lots of aspects that we customized.  Probably best for Adobe to think about this and setup a time to talk about it with your Jive Services Acct Mg

Gosh I'd hate to think how bad this mess would be without all that customization. 

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

…that even I have quit responding... or even reading, for the most part.

It did not go unnoticed, and it's appreciated.

[Guest]

It's interesting that the users posting in this thread are some of the most prolific helpers in their respective forums. 

[Cezkay]

DorothyK@Adobe wrote:

Since no one from Adobe is obligated in the slightest to be here it doesn't surprise me in the least that even I have quit responding... or even reading, for the most part. It would be easy to spend entire workdays just trying to communicate in this forum. No thanks.

Jive A$$ Idiot #2

Symptomatic of Adobe's arrogance

[Phos_four_dots]

Apparently John C. is so damned busy juggling the 100 flaming turds called Clearspace he doesn't even have time to give a one sentence long answer about whether or not he might want to provide ongoing feedback about what's happening down in the bilge tanks of this garbage scow they're trying to call a Forum.

Jeebers H. Chrysler, I sure wouldn't want to have his job these days.

Could I loan you a pair of asbestos gloves, mate?

[Kath-H]

Yer 'avin a larf!

[Guest]

Cris Cox is correct, we are rehashing the same issues over and over again.  We complained about many of the same issue in the forum for the beta version.  There is the need to rehash the same issues as no one pays any attention, or at least gives us any feedback as to how the issues will be addressed.

Since the issues in the beta copy were not addressed I do not see how Adobe could accept the current project as finished.  As many users have pointed out we are still in a Beta copy.  Jive needs to keep adding "customizations" until they get a usable copy.  To ask Adobe to "upgrade" is just insane.  Adobe needs to demand a workable forum first.

As a software development company they should know the process, and have run the old forum until most of the complaints were fixed.  Now Adobe has less leverage and Jive knows it.

[Chris Cox]

There is no need to rehash the complaints.  The only people who haven't been paying attention are the ones rehashing the complaints.

Just because you aren't getting a play by play doesn't mean that work isn't going on, doesn't mean that bugs aren't being fixed, and certainly doesn't mean that your requests haven't been heard.

But there's a limit to how much feedback we can provide.  And repeating the same things over and over makes people even less likely to respond.

Please, stop acting like whining children.

[Bob_Peters]

Chris Cox wrote:

There is no need to rehash the complaints.  The only people who haven't been paying attention are the ones rehashing the complaints.

Just because you aren't getting a play by play doesn't mean that work isn't going on, doesn't mean that bugs aren't being fixed, and certainly doesn't mean that your requests haven't been heard.

But there's a limit to how much feedback we can provide.  And repeating the same things over and over makes people even less likely to respond.

Please, stop acting like whining children.

Now, I certainly don't spent a whole lot of time helping anyone.  I freely admit that.

But I also have not noticed a single bug fix (aside from part of the email header) or improvement as the result of all the 'kvetching' you mention.  In fact, there has not been one visible change that I can recall seeing.  Are there improvements going on 'behind the curtain'?  Sure.  Is there any indication that anything has improved?  Not that I can see.

What I do see on the part of some Adobe personnel (JC excluded) is a certain amount of arrogance.  In effect, we are being told to shut up.  Grow up. Stop acting like a bunch of whining children.

Fine. Deal.  So, how about supplying some adult supervision and feedback instead of 'kvetching' about our 'kvetching'?

[Claudio_González1]

Chris, in your reply to Jochem you wrote

>They got a response, the first, second, and maybe third time.  After someone drove it into the ground, they stopped getting responses.

However, in his message he had given this thread as an example:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1882604

This thread, initiated on April 5, contains at this time only six messages, Only one of them is a semi official response, and it is a suggestion to repost his message in the wrong forum. And I see no "driving into the ground" in any of the messages. I didn't want to be so blunt, but you are evading the issue and (on the verge of?) being insolent; he hasn't behaved at all as a whining child,

I think all of the regulars posting in this forum acknowledge the enormous effort JC and his team are doing to mend the chaos of the new forums that were foced on them and on us. If people are repeating the same complaints, it may be because thay started posting them as soon as the trial forums were uploaded. And, in spite ofthe efforts of JC and his team, they haven't been solved. You may not be aware of this, but patience has a limit and, in my opinion, you are not contributing in the least to calm the waters.

There are times when it's better to remain silent...