What About Moderators in the New Forum?

[John T Smith]

Read the spam thread for awhile and you will see that moderation works well in these webx forums

You will also see messages concerning the LACK of moderation over in the cfusion side of things

Will the new forum software/structure allow for "this" moderation to continue, or will it fall away to "that" style of non-moderation?

[Kath-H]

Pure coincidence, but I've just shot myself in the foot over in InDesign Windows - I was there searching for any posts that might help me with a problem related to the printing of certain pdfs placed into ID, and no-one on the Mac side has the answer (or in the Acrobat forum so far). I spotted what I thought was an easy question, so jumped in with a suggestion - which, it turns out, won't work in Windows.

I think it's the kind of thing that would crop up more often in a merged forum.

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b816ba/3

[Kath-H]

Oh, and I must stick up for Murray. He annoyed the heck out of me when he bounced into the Golive forums unannounced, with his endless autoquotes and apparently self-aggrandising title I'd never seen before. Now he's dropped the infuriating auto-quotes, and I understand what the title means (although he's stopped using it) and been around a while, I have to say he's one of the most helpful and knowledgable people in there and has helped me and others a lot.

AFAIK he doesn't even use Golive - but maybe those forums are a bit different, in that any web authoring application is only really an attempt to put an easy-to-use skin over the code, which works on the same principles whatever helper-app people use.

As a side issue, I hope the Golive forums don't disappear even though the product is discontinued, I've currently no intention of switching. Although I work much more 'under the hood' these days I really like the ease of use for website management.

Maybe be if there is anyone ( 😉 ) else as irritable as I am, we should just hold our water a bit more :)

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Kath,

I've plonked Murray now. I shouldn't have any reason to mention him in the future.

One big difference in the former Macromedia forums is that the Mac market share in those products is dwarfed by the Windows market share.

Not so in the areas of Photoshop, Photography, Typography, InDesign, Camera Raw and Illustrator, where the market share is 60%-40% either way , according to Microsoft's own figures.

Maybe that's why the merged forums allegedly work on the other side, and why the attempted merged forums on our side have always been disasters when they've been tried.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

I'm not sure whom Freeagent is quoting in #281, as I've plonked more than one participant, but the "rabid" epithet is stolen straight out of Ann's post #174:

> the rabid screams of protest by the one's who have come into this thread to protect their pathetic little "Hall Monitor's badges.

Typical 'dozer's lack of originality [in a feeble attempt to turn it against Mac users]. :D

Yet, an excellent example of the inevitable platform flame wars.

[Kath-H]

I speak as I find, Ramón (I saw your pre-edited post).

[Guest]

>Oh, and I must stick up for Murray.

I have to agree (but then I'm biased 🙂 Murray is one of the most knowledgeable people I know and a tireless poster on the MM forums and has been for years.

Ramon and his disparaging remarks about Murray (amongst others) without knowing the person is beyond insulting. His intention is clearly obvious - hoping we all go away - he wants to be king of the jungle.

Maybe I've been 'plonked' too and he won't see this :-)

> He annoyed the heck out of me when he bounced into the Golive forums unannounced, with his endless autoquotes

Possibly blame the use of NNTP - rather than the web interface - auto-quoting is very difficult to stop cold turkey :-)

[Guest]

I think Ray has confused the original purpose of the "plonking" script (which was to eliminate obscene or otherwise offensive posts) with using it for blotting out people who disagree with him. I believe it's like "ignore" in some newsreaders.

Using it his way, it easy easy to lose the content of a thread. But it probably makes him happy in his tiny little world. :)

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Nadia,

No, I haven't plonked you yet but it will probably be an excellent idea.

I've disliked Murray for a long, long time well before this forum section was created. He was asked to turn off his autoquotes back then, when he burst into the Forum Comments and Announcement section at around the time of the last, ultimately reversed changeover. His responses to that request earned him the disrespect of many.

I couldn't care less whether he goes, stays or goes underground. He doesn't intrude into the forums I visit and, now that I've plonked him, he's history as far as I'm concerned.

You are one pretentious, overbearing Aussie woman in presuming to ascribe non-existent motives to me. Not only do I categorically not want to be king of anything, I don't even want to be part of your "jungle". The Macromedia side has nothing to offer me, and I have nothing to contribute there. I have on occasion commented on the coarseness of many Australians (not all of course, there are some fine people over there and from there, including some who are very, very dear to me) and you seem to fit that coarse mould.

[Kath-H]

You know, I've just been to the list of Product Forums - the one 'over here' not on the Adobe main site, and the list could at the very least be alphabetical, or follow *some* system. Now that's something that could be fixed 'over here', surely, without even waiting for a new system :(.

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4f8d8/

[Kath-H]

Rubbish! Nadia has exhibited no such thing.

[Guest]

He's on the same stuff as Ann!

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

>Nadia has exhibited no such thing.

See #285:

>Ramon and his disparaging remarks about Murray (amongst others) without knowing the person is beyond insulting. His intention is clearly obvious - hoping we all go away - he wants to be king of the jungle

[Emphasis added]

[Kath-H]

I give up.

[Guest]

Thanks John and Kath !! appreciated :-)

As for the other, won't even both responding.

[David_Powers]

Flame wars are not unusual in online forums, nor is animosity towards newcomers who break a few rules dear to the hearts of regulars. But two things strike me. John Cornicello says forum participation is falling, and I've heard several people say in the past that the Adobe forums are unfriendly.

Is that perhaps the nub of the problem? The Adobe forums are certainly very different from any other I have come across. The navigation is confusing to a newcomer, and the quoting and formatting are different. Then there's the Windows/Mac divide. To people who have used this system for years, it's familiar and "works". It doesn't surprise me that you're protective of it. But if the level of animosity towards anyone with a different viewpoint is as high as I have witnessed here, you're in danger of destroying your forums. Avatars, titles, and everything else fade into insignificance if the community dwindles in size and support.

[Guest]

David, please be aware that the animosity is coming from a couple of users out of hundreds. Although these people post good advice regularly they are also pretty intolerant and it is these few who get the Adobe-style forums the reputation for unfriendliness.

I get the impression that the moderators concerned let it ride because of the good parts of the posts but, coming in as I did from the relatively placid Windows side, I found some of the supercilious arrogance unbelievable.

[David_Powers]

It takes only a couple of unfriendly posts to put off a newcomer.

> I get the impression that the moderators concerned let it ride because of the good parts of the posts

This brings the issue back to the real subject of this thread: moderation or not. It's why I came here; not to get mired in a slanging match about titles.

The former Macromedia forums are not moderated, although Community Experts do report spam and abuse to get them removed ASAP. The Community Experts also try to provide advice to newcomers on such things as not posting the same question multiple times, using meaningful subject lines, and so on. The lack of formal moderation can make the forums seem chaotic at times, but there's generally a lively atmosphere that most newcomers adapt to pretty quickly, and they seem to like it. There are also a lot of people who come, ask one or two questions, and then disappear.

On the Adobe side, however, there are Forum Hosts, who have the power to edit and delete messages. They also have the power to turn a user's privileges to read-only. This is a very different culture, and I don't feel 100% comfortable with the idea of censoring other people's posts, even in the most benevolent way.

In the past couple of weeks, we had a newcomer in the Dreamweaver forum who was acting in an extremely disruptive way. I'm sure that his posting privileges would have been revoked if the Community Experts had the same powers accorded to Forum Hosts (and apparently we will in the new system). However, after a few days, he calmed down and started posting normally. Peer pressure appears to have worked - so far.

What I'm interested to hear is how Adobe forum regulars view the moderation (Forum Host) system. What's good about it? What's bad about it? Obviously, Community Experts will make up their own minds how to exercise their new-found powers in their relevant forums, but it would be useful to learn from the experience over here.

[D__McCahill]

> Nadia, David, Murray and Günter have gone into battle with great courage, and have fought the dragons bravely. Hats off, gentlemen

Is Nadia a gentleman?

To David

I respect your opinion, but suggest that the one thing you will want to learn as a host on this side (or dealing with the folks from this side, to be more precise) is that once you have made your point (and you have made it well) is to then shut up.

Trying to argue and debate with some of these people is pointless. They will never see reason, or even admit that your stance might have merit, even if they disagree. All must be black or white, and if your choice is not theirs, or (shudder) it is grey, then the debate will continue.

The more experienced moderators make their point once, and then leave it alone. Note how little John C. has said in all this. He has made his points once, and that is all. Repeating your arguments will not change minds, it will just prolong the debate.

[David_Powers]

Don,

Thanks for that advice. So, do the dissenters normally shut up after the moderator has made his/her point? Or do they carry on their own private wars? If the latter happens, it would seem to make the role of the moderator somewhat pointless.

[_Murray_Summers_]

By the way, and DEEPLY offtopic, for which I apologize, is anyone else experiencing the issue where the 'Last' link in the navigation element just below the last post on the page doesn't take you to the Last page? It takes you to a list of topics. Is that what it should do?

[Guest]

No it's broken. "Search" is pretty dodgy as well.

[Neil_Keller]

Murray,

It's as John says...these are long-standing issues.

Neil

[_Murray_Summers_]

@John & Neil:

Ahh - thanks. Being a newcomer to this medium, I'm not familiar with those things.

[Guest]

>What's bad about it?

it's not enforceable. if a persistent user wants to get around a banning, all they have to do is create a new name and continue with their contentious behaviour - which is why i wrote the afplonk script for firefox + greasemonkey (ff plugin) in the first place. http://milbut.org/afPlonk.html

i've also recently added another script:

http://milbut.org/afClean.user.js

that converts the worst of the curse words into inane drivel (i.e. f&#k to "fluffykittens"). i've been using that rather that outright hiding (plonking) users. but to each his own.

[Kath-H]

>f&#k to "fluffykittens"

For which I must not-so-modestly claim credit ;)