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What we have lost

Community Expert ,
Mar 21, 2009 Mar 21, 2009

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b What we have lost:

b 1) Direct actual loss of functionality:

b In the forum lists:

The ability to see which threads have new posts (and how many) since the last visit: obtained by the use of flags, numbers, different colour.
With it, you can immediately see and enter the threads that have grown, and the threads that you have visited.
Without it, you are groping in the dark, wasting a lot of time.

b In the threads:

The feature of going to the last read post to continue: default.
With it, you can just enter and continue reading.
Without it you are groping in the dark, wasting a lot of time.

The ability to open all posts without changing to a special view: obtained by pressing the Show All Messages button.
With it, you can scroll easily back and forth throughout the continuous thread
Without it, you have to go back and forth between pages, breaking up the continuity, unless you change to a special view (Print preview) that is lost as soon as you post.

The ability to archive a whole thread safely from the default view (possibly overwriting an earlier version): obtained by pressing the Show All Messages button.
With it, you can just archive.
Without it, you have to change to a special view (Print preview); if you forget, you will destroy the archived thread.

The ability to answer several posts at the same time: default.
With it, you can answer several posts freely; see below.
Without it, you have to choose to label your post as an answer to the original post or one other specific post, thus declaring a limitation that rules out all generality and multiple answers.

The ability to see other posts while creating a new post: default.
With it, you can scroll back to any post to reread and/or gather quotes while writing your own, thereby easily considering and possibly answering several posts; see above.
Without it, you can only see and answer one post, unless you exit your own posting using the Back button in order to see the others, and then you lose what you have written, unless you remember to select the lot and Ctrl+C before, and Ctrl+V when you return, using the Forward button.

b 2) Loss of efficiency, beyond direct loss of functionality:

b In the forum lists:

A compact thread list enabling you to overlook a large number of threads, often covering many days.
Instead, the thread list takes up some 2.5 - 3 times as much vertical space.

b In the threads:

A compact series of posts, only stating what is necessary, and keeping the focus on the actual posts, allowing relevant information about the poster at a click or a search.
Instead, the thread is dominated by repetition/unnecessary information in larger text size and actual posts in smaller text size, making the latter the most difficult part to read, taking up far more vertical space, possibly about 1.5 times as much (based on the same size text in the actual posts).

b 3) Loss of a timeless, mature, and unfortunately unique, forum design:

As is the case with designs in any area, a timeless mature design reflects the purpose it fulfills.

The lost forum format is casual, simple, and efficient in terms of focussing on the purpose and the actual content: user to user exchange of knowledge and experience within a community. This may be compared to a workshop/brainstorm, where everyone is equal and mixes with everyone else, and may be judged by actual contribution within the current forum, and may relax by informal OT in the form of joking, banter, and the like.
The new mainstream forum format follows the present trend of distracting focus from the purpose and content and directing it towards presenting the posters themselves. This may be compared to a formal conference, where everyone is ranked and decorated with medals/badges/ribbons according to some highly doubtful criteria across all forums, and every statement is preceded by a formal introduction/announcement, all of which is highly formal OT.

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Guest
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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>>WOW! Look at all the shiny buttons! KOOL!

You've used that design philosophy well on the "Taumel" pages...

Here's a clue, Ann: That is one FUGLY site.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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If you were able to quote all of the links, with the links included - does the site come back to your message after someone goes there. With the new forums, my experience is that you have to note where you are before you leave, but cause the system will not bring you back with the back button. In fact, if your post is on a page after the 1st page of the topic, you will be brought back to the 1st page and have to spend time to get back to your message again. This back button issue is my main concern right now. With the scripts, the width and avatars have become options for me and are no longer a bit hang up. Those options were what I had been asking for and it took a user to provide them, not Adobe.

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Guest
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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>So you have advised me to not get petty. What is your advice to Ann?

i'm sorry if it seemed i was singling you out dirck. i wasn't. just post proximity. i meant everyone. in general. we're all here because we care about the forums, the people, the products. ann can come off pretty strong. i know it's because she cares. and everyone needs to relax a little and don't let it get too personal. it's been said once or twice here abouts, "it's only a forum".

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Guest
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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:)

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New Here ,
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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I just know that image is going to show up in a Classroom in a Book and make Adobe millions. I wish I'd never signed that model release.

(Thanks Dave}

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Guest
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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The text at left in the image of Post #28 reminds me of the old SNL "Happy Fun Ball" commercial parody:

"DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL!"

;-)

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Guest
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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>(Thanks Dave}

ah, good times. good times! :)

>The text at left in the image of Post #28 reminds me of the old SNL "Happy Fun Ball" commercial parody

believe that was originally from the bronx zoo...

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Life-Zoo-Behind-Scenes-Animal-Phillip-T-Robinson/9780231132480-item.html?pticket=t2npsnyytzfr5345ehtvfsvwUGcGpdtEgswIIJgwTS4dOgdmJqM%3d

search for "please do not"

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Advisor ,
Mar 22, 2009 Mar 22, 2009

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Jacob,

You have only scratched the surface of the efficiency and functionality we will lose from the perspective of NNTP - a text-only format far more mature and time-tested than any Web forum.

I am beginning to doubt that the Jive application CAN be configured to cover all your points. We will all have to decide to adapt or to move on to other places.

(Before anybody mentions it, news servers CAN handle "binary" images.)

[Edit: added "text-only"]

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Community Expert ,
Mar 23, 2009 Mar 23, 2009

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Mark, you are right, of course. I have never looked into NNTP, and now it is too late.

Maybe an actual list of losses for NNTP users, here or in a separate thread, is called for.

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Explorer ,
Mar 23, 2009 Mar 23, 2009

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We have lost email notification.

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Advocate ,
Mar 23, 2009 Mar 23, 2009

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Something is being sent out which most ISPs see as spam and they block it. Gmail works, but your email address is the vital part of your Adobe ID, 'real name' and screen name can be changed at will.

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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Cindy:

This has been mentioned in the New and Improved preview forum: The Jive (Adobe?) email server is placing "localhost.localdomain" in the email header. This is the probable cause of some ISPs blocking email notifications.

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Explorer ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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Do they plan on fixing it?

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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Cindy:

John C has reported the problem to the Jive people and it is now out of his hands.

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Explorer ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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Is there something we can enter with our ISP's that will whitelist it?

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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You can contact your ISP but I predict it probably won't do any good. The email header is incorrectly constructed.

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Explorer ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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Ok thanks Bob.

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Guest
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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>John C has reported the problem to the Jive people and it is now out of his hand

while he's talking to them, can he mention the "open a thread at 'new for me' posts" issue? :)

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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dave:

I am just a humble user of Photoshop and Lightroom. No more and possibly less :)

{Edited a typo...]

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Participant ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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>while he's talking to them, can he mention the "open a thread at 'new for me' posts" issue?

and "bread-crumbs at the bottom of each page" too. PLEASE.

Navigation, as it now exists in the Jive Forums, is a nightmare.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 24, 2009 Mar 24, 2009

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And what remains in the OT, and elsewhere.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 02, 2009 Apr 02, 2009

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Reposted from here: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.59b87ea7

One thing is certain: from now on, the forums will be more fragmented, and therefore we shall be less of a community.

With the scripts, some of us may escape some ugliness, but that actually means that no longer shall we all see the same forums.

I shall miss that, too.

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Explorer ,
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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What we have lost is a whole bunch of Mac community. Really sad. Adobe will pay the price. People looking for help will pay the price.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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What a customer-insensitive, lethargic, awkward mechanism.

Adobe fails to observe the traits that it purports to extol -- ease of use, effectiveness of communication, speed, responsiveness.

If the goal of this forum is to help customers, who don't you slim down and just do that without all the bells, whistles, and aggravations?

Humbug!

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Community Expert ,
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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Just a reminder.

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