Why are we here?

Report · Mar 05, 2009

I've posted this, but I think we need to get back to basics.

>What Adobe wants to hear is cogent, rational and professional responses to their proposals to change the forums.

>See, Oz, that's the problem. We are not being told in any detail what their proposals are, and we have no idea how much we can influence them.

>Take the issue of a 'question answered' indication. Will there be one? In what form? Is there any point saying whether we want one or not?

>We just get fuzzy, obscure comments about how some things might be there out of the box, it might be possible to add or subtract some features, but we don't know whether or which.

>If Adobe wants cogent, rational and professional responses, they (it?) really need(s?) to make some cogent, rational and professional proposals for us to discuss.

>Otherwise we're going round in circles.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

Are we really being asked for our views? Is anyone listening? Is there any point?

Does anyone know, actually know, what we can ask to have or not have, and for that to happen?

If our opinions are wanted - on what, *exactly* ?

If it's all speculation, what's the point?

Report · Mar 05, 2009

Like I said in another thread, perhaps we've commented too much on some highly preliminary information. And I include myself in that "we".

If and when a working prototype is made available, then we'll have something more meaty to get our teeth into, and something where function can be checked out properly as well as form.

Let's hope that's what they are working on now (and thus not getting much involved in discussions here). I don't know how far things have got backstage.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

John is listening, we know that. I am sure that he brings our concerns up to the powers that be. That doesn't mean that changes will be made according to our wishes (which might be a good thing, as the predominant wish of many of us would be to leave the whole thing as it is, which is not going to happen).

So yes, I think we are being heard. But it is not a democracy ... they run the company and can do whatever they want with it. We don't get a vote, only the opportunity to make our feelings known, which we have.

Our vote is with our feet, after the changes are made, if we find that the new forums are not worth the hassles. I made that vote at the last disaster. But I am more hopeful that this time things won't be so bad.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

>Are we really being asked for our views? Is anyone listening? Is there any point?

for most companies that host forums and I suspect Adobe is included, No!

all this is an excise in venting a fears, desires, wants.

But, in the end adobe will decide what they want you, and me to put up with. they have no interest nor any desires to do anything for the users.

In there heart of hearts if the could drive everyone a way then they would have to have forums and it cost them less in the long run.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

John doesn't have to tell us anything, nor did he have to contort himself in many and varied ways over the years as he has to make us happy.

He's listening... but people have to be reasonable and practical and give him rational feedback that he's able to reply to. I don't expect him to jump into the fray when people are shouting out demands of what they have to have to be happy.

What he can respond to is such things as whether or not we'll be using various elements included in the software he's working with.

We can do our own homework also and try to see what might be possible before we start insisting on having things that are impossible. Most of the stuff in this page is well beyond me, but people are welcome to pick through it and see what they can find out... http://www.jivesoftware.com/builds/docs/clearspace/latest/

Report · Mar 05, 2009

Step back one level http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b7c637/

That "Frequently Asked Questions on upcoming changes to Adobe Forums" does have a notice in one of the links that says "You will soon have an opportunity to preview the new system and check out its features"

That does NOT directly say that anyone will be able to change anything... I would HOPE that the preview would include a place for comments, but that is, at this point, only a hope

Until the preview is made available, all we are doing is talking about what MAY be available

Let's wait until the preview is here, so we may then talk about what IS available

Since the actual change is supposed to happen in April, I would GUESS the preview will happen some time in March

Report · Mar 05, 2009

>Why are we here?

In an old B.C. strip the answer was: So the plants can get carbon dioxide.

A present addition might be: Mission Accomplished.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

Also at John's one level back: look again at "what are the changes."

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b7c4fe

I'm not bothered by this, but I do think we are talking about a done deal with some continuing work on tweaks. I have not gone back to John's posts, but he was not promising lots of input, and I don't think he said anything that contradicts the faqs.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

So, to echo the title of the thread: why the hell are we bothering to provide feedback when we get no acknowledgement that our opinions or requests are of any concern to JC's team; and the only response we get is the complacent attitudes (and platitudes!) from the "Adobe Community Experts" cadre?

Basically, it is becoming more than apparent that we are going to be expected to "just put up" with whatever the development team chooses to dish out to us.

Adobe might just care to reflect that "loyalty is a two-way street".

Report · Mar 05, 2009

speaking personally, for a copy of photoshop cs4 extended (email aikodude at yahoo dot com to seal the deal) i'll put up with whatever adobe wants me to put up with. :)

Report · Mar 05, 2009

(yes, that was a joke)

but seriously, aikodude at ... :)

Report · Mar 05, 2009

As I understand it, nearly a quarter million people have posted on these forums. How many are embroiled in these discussions? Can they be said to represent a majority? Although their opinions are as legitimate as any, are they not so small in number that they would not budge the needle on the opine-o-meter?

Report · Mar 05, 2009

to answer that wouldn't you need to know the percentage of help that the posters here provide? i mean the reason many people here are posting on the subject at all is because they're passionate about it. we're here every day, helping adobe's bottom line. i think we (as a small minority) deserve a say.

if many of the people posting here left because they got royally cheesed off (and i'm not saying that they will leave), would they be replaced? maybe. maybe not quickly. maybe not at all.

Report · Mar 05, 2009

Adobe personnel are not going to respond to every post on every topic. We are responding where needed, but otherwise just listening. Not always agreeing, not always acting immediately, but listening.

The small number of people posting here don't represent the average very well - but the posters do often raise good points that need to be taken into consideration. And there's always a few that just want to rant without providing any reasoning for their positions.

Report · Mar 06, 2009

On DVL comments. True the people here commenting and venting and so on might not even make the needle move. Most then there are legions of people that would like to but are fearful to or too shy to go so publicly with their views. we all speak for the silent majority who won't speak up.

Report · Mar 06, 2009

> And there's always a few that just want to rant without providing any reasoning for their positions.

You think?