Why are we still moving threads?

[Guest]

The thread "New to Adobe Flex" which was posted here is now in the Flex forum.  Wouldn't it have been less confusing to the OP if it was just left here with a note saying to post in the other forum?  Who knows if they'll see their answers now..  if the OP had asked for it to be moved that's fine but is moving a thread and leaving no indication it was here such a good idea?

[Jochem van Dieten]

Ozzwoman9 wrote:

The thread I have seen that was copied was still active in the Forum Comments and in the forum that it was moved to.

That is incorrect. First of all, threads can not be copied. That functionality is simply not present in either the Jive software or in the software I used to move the thread yoou mean. Second, threads can not be in multiple forums. Thread have a one-to-one foreign key relation to forums so it is simply impossible for threads to be in two forums.

What can happen is that on one of the servers the cache of the HTML for the thread gets out of sync and a thread that is in one forum is linked from another forum. But even in that case, the thread is still only in one forum. Only the permissions, notifications, escalations, tags etc. from one forum apply. That distinction is subtle, but very important because it explains exactly how the current behaviour of the forums is.

[Phillip M Jones]

Sorry about misnaming you.

Captiv8r wrote:

Wow, so I've now earned the name of RoboCop!

I tend to agree with Curt. I don't find it confusing whatsoever to move a thread to where it really belongs. After all, if the user wound up posting in this forum to begin with, it's rather obvious to me they are totally confused and don't know where they are. So how will they find their way back here later?

I know there are lots of Jive haters here and I fall into what appears to be a minority with my affinity for the new format, but one of the really cool things is that when you post or reply to a post, you are automatically subscribed to that post. This means any replies come to you via E-Mail. So it shouldn't matter if the thread were moved to Martha Stewart's house. Replies will get to the OP.

I know if I were to accidentally post in the wrong forum I'd much rather see someone move my thread automatically to where those that can help me will possibly answer it. I would find it a bit on the rude side and feel chastised to simply be advised I was in the wrong place and to go post again in the correct place. I would feel it was imposing a penalty on me for being in the wrong place to begin with.

And for those of you that are thinking about suggesting that E-Mail subscriptions can be turned off, so what if the user does that? How will they find their way back then? I'll just say that if they are lost enough to be posting in the wrong place, it's highly unlikely that they are savvy enough with the forums to have figured out how to unsubscribe. Heck, even some of us that have been here for a while don't seem to fully understand how the subscription process works.

Cheers... Rick

But the fact is as a result of a Post being moved I got tangled up in a Thread that ended up in another forum. You were the one that explained to me what happened. I neither like or disklike the Jive forums. I would just prefer that they work right. And until they can move the thread, and it does not catch other people not related to Forum unaware, being moved along with the original poster. Then they should cease moving threads around. I clicked on the email notification link which was message in the original place. when  link opened I was in I believe it was AfterEffects (about video Editing) Forum.  the way it should work is if a thread is moved from one place to the other it should be dead to everyone except the originator of the errant post.

[Captiv8r]

No problem on the misname. I have two different forum names. RoboWizard and Captiv8r. (This is one of the reasons I am among the minority liking Jive. The FuseTalk made me become Schizophrenic with multiple identies so I could receive E-Mail message notifications from two different forums)

The Jive forums allow you to subscribe at the forum level. Sounds like you have done that. So any messages arriving in the forum comments forum are routed to you via E-Mail. But when you click the link in the E-Mail, you see the message (wherever it may be) and not the forum. Because you elected to reply to the message, you were then subscribed to the message replies, not the forum the message was moved to. Sounds like that may have confused you.

For what it's worth, a few minutes ago I moved a message inside one of the other forums I monitor. I received a reply back from the OP sincerely thanking me for the move so they didn't have to.

Cheers... Rick

[Kath-H]

I think moving threads is a good idea, as long as the OP is informed somehow. While it lingers in the wrong forum a note before the title - [Moved] would be useful, just as some hosts are polite enough to put [Locked] before a title when that is the case.

[Kath-H]

minority liking Jive. The FuseTalk ...

In a nutshell. Those coming from WebX are the ones who tend to take a different view.

The loss of major contributors should not be dismissed as mere collateral damage - some of the big hitters came from the dreadful Fusetalk forums - and therefore used NNTP instead. They wouldn't tolerate its loss.

[Jochem van Dieten]

Chenging titles is typically not a good idea since that messes up the email notifications. (Threads have a subject that is a separate property from the subject of topics, and the change will only affect one of them.) Adobe should just hurry up with upgrading so the cache consistency issue is fixed.

[Ildhund]

Notifications of your last few posts with pretty URLs have come through garbled (=missing the anchor), see 2190227. Is something else broken now?

Any particular reason why email notifications of your posts are transfer-encoded variously QP and 7-bit? Are some e-mail posts and the others webside?

Noel

[Jochem van Dieten]

If I understand your question about missing anchors right that is an old bug. Could you point me to two examples, one with the problem and one without?

I am posting half of my messages through the we and half through my own client. I will have a look at the differences that causes.

[Guest]

jochemd wrote:

I am posting half of my messages through the we and half through my own client.

I would have thought that that is very bad practice for a moderator to adopt.

Inconsistency is bad in a paragon!

[Harbs.]

I would have thought that that is very bad practice for a moderator

to adopt.

Unless he's trying to test the client so we'll end up with a usable

client for these forums...

Harbs

[Guest]

Yes but we are not guinea pigs!

I know the adobe servers are powered by hamsters but experiments should be carrired out in a test environment.

[Jochem van Dieten]

Any experiments are done in a test environment. I am running my stuff in a nice, separate Sandbox on my system, isolated from all my production stuff.

[Guest]

Are we in the sandbox too? 

Guinea pigs prefer sawdust. 

[Harbs.]

Well, kids play in sandboxes. Are we kids?

Harbs

[Jochem van Dieten]

Not at all. It is important to interact with these forums in different ways so you get to know the impact your actions may have on other people working in different ways. Especially as a moderator, but it wouldn't hurt most users either to try something else.

Look at it this way: if Adobe management had ever tried to follow a high volume forum in different ways, we would still have had NNTP.

So why don't you try something else for a change? http://forums.adobe.com/message/2184870?tstart=0#2184870

[Phillip M Jones]

Who's to say that's not bad.

Microsoft has both a web based Forums, and it duplicated in a NTTP format. Guess which one gives the least trouble. The NTTP format. People are constantly having having the main question dropped and some replies on the web based, then after about 5 or 10 post of why isn't anyone answering they end up on the NTTP  server only to find the same bunch of people answering questions don't know what the heck is going on. So the poster has to repeat their question.  Often times the Web based Service stays broke down for months at a time, for them.

[pwillener]

PjonesCET wrote:

Microsoft has both a web based Forums, and it duplicated in a NTTP format. Guess which one gives the least trouble. The NTTP format. People are constantly having having the main question dropped and some replies on the web based, then after about 5 or 10 post of why isn't anyone answering they end up on the NTTP  server only to find the same bunch of people answering questions don't know what the heck is going on. So the poster has to repeat their question.  Often times the Web based Service stays broke down for months at a time, for them.

Not quite; the NNTP groups are the original ones, duplicated into some sort of forum software.

But the rest you describe is quite accurate; only the NNTP works correctly.  Those posting on the forum side frequently never find their original posts or any replies.  Some repost again and again.

[Phillip M Jones]

whichever way, the web based forum don't work for them. people submit question through the web format and they never get through for months at time.

So while some say here NTTP is so last year, it happens to be the most reliable format. Ive read other news groups that say NTTP is the most reliable.

[pwillener]

I wouldn't quite say "last year", but rather "last century" (or even "last millenium").

The problem, however, with NNTP is that most newer computer users don't have a clue how to configure or use NNTP newsgroups.  Unless you give them a URL like news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlook.general (Jive software refuses to accept this as a hyperlink), they wouldn't know where to start.

[Captiv8r]

LOL, I think you are spot on!

I used to know someone that referred to NNTP as Nasty Nasty Total Porn. According to him, NNTP was nothing more than a haven for pornography!

I never got into NNTP myself. I understood it required a special reader to use it as well as a subscription to a NNTP server to see any feeds. I began getting into forums actively back in 2000. All of them so far have been web based.

I've heard others report that the Microsoft NNTP servers have become nothing more than spam havens.

Cheers... Rick

[Phillip M Jones]

Captiv8r wrote:

LOL, I think you are spot on!

I used to know someone that referred to NNTP as Nasty Nasty Total Porn. According to him, NNTP was nothing more than a haven for pornography!

I never got into NNTP myself. I understood it required a special reader to use it as well as a subscription to a NNTP server to see any feeds. I began getting into forums actively back in 2000. All of them so far have been web based.

I've heard others report that the Microsoft NNTP servers have become nothing more than spam havens.

Cheers... Rick

I follow the Mac Office newsgoups in  the link given above.

Certain NTTP servers do harbor a lot of Spam. And yes there some devoted to porn but both are in the minority. As for Readers, Mozilla's Thunderbird and SeaMokey, and PostBox based on Thunderbird 3 as well as others. PostBox,Thunderbird, and SeaMonket do email as well.

if you have the newsgroup servers closed up, They don't download headers, only when you open them up do they download headers for the groups you are subscribed to. An advantage of NTTP newsgroups is only headers are actually downloaded to your computer. You read the actual messages on your computer, they are read directly off of the server.

On ocassionally MicroSoft Servers do have Spam to show up but its squashed before the day is out. And one server I go to there is no spam period Its setup as authenticated you have to sign in with username and password.

[S_D_A_]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:52:45AM -0600, Jochem van Dieten uttered:

Not at all. It is important to interact with these forums in different ways so you get to know the impact your actions may have on other people working in different ways. Especially as a moderator, but it wouldn't hurt most users either to try something else.

Look at it this way: if Adobe management had ever tried to follow a high volume forum in different ways, we would still have had NNTP.

So why don't you try something else for a change? http://forums.adobe.com/message/2184870?tstart=0#2184870

E-mail repeater bug fixed ?

>

[Jochem van Dieten]

S.D.A. wrote:

E-mail repeater bug fixed ?

Yes

[S_D_A_]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 08:27:04AM -0600, Jochem van Dieten uttered:

[Guest]

It seems the more we learn about Jiveware the more we learn how much it sucks.

jochemd wrote:

Not at all. It is important to interact with these forums in different ways

If I ever find another way for me to interact with these forums (that actually works), I'll let you know.

John Joslin wrote:

Yes but we are not guinea pigs!

I know the adobe servers are powered by hamsters but experiments should be carrired out in a test environment.

S.D.A. wrote:

E-mail repeater bug fixed ?

>

Speaking of experiments being done in the test forums... I hope this wasn't one.

I still think moving threads is a bad idea.  Sending a PM to the OP helps but, no thanks to Jive's crap UI design, we don't always notice such things.. especially someone new.