Why do we even bother any longer?

Report · Nov 24, 2009

I posted the below in another thread... However, I thought it deserved a thread of its own, so... How long this will last before being either:

1/ Locked

2/ Removed

3/ Or whatever...

...is a moot point.

Anyway, here's the content of that post:

"You know, why do we even bother any longer?

Maybe we should all just call it a day. That's what they seem to want. Those of us who still want to hang around in the product forums... do that. For the rest, this whole thing has become a joke.

Between the bannings, locked threads, deleted posts... it's worse than a kindergarden. At least, in a kindergarden, if someone cries there's a helping hand. Here, it's the opposite.

So, in all seriousness, maybe we should all call it a day and move on. Visit the individual product forums if we want... impart and absorb what we can... and leave it at that. The old forums are never going to come back.

And what we have here is no longer a joke. It's a nightmare.

End of story...."

To this, i'd lack to add a simple fact. Despite what the jived up software has done to these forums, the mods here have effectively murdered this one.

The product forums carry on... with about a fraction of the involvement there was earlier... but are still working in a half-a$$ed fashion. Thanks to a few stalwarts.

This forum, which should be the main 'turbulence centre', the forum that keeps everyone on their toes, that tells the powers-that-be what is wrong, is being turned / has been turned into a vanilla flavour of saccharine sweetness.

The jokers and clowns that masquerade as mods sems to have won the day. And, a sad day it is...

Ciao folks... wonder if i'll still be here tomorrow...

Report · Nov 24, 2009

3

Report · Nov 24, 2009

Why do we bother?

because we're optimists?

because we have so enjoyed Adobe products over the years we just can't believe it has come to this?

because, despite it all, we like to help people?

<sigh> I guess we just like to bang our heads against the wall.

I am an eternal optimist and even I am losing hope.

Report · Nov 24, 2009

Well I am eternal Pessimist, I hve thing constantly happen to me all my life that were bad and little good. So with the background, I figured we would have all these problems and more with these forums after the switch. Just the name of the company says all Jive. (As term in Shuck and Jive, or the song Jive Taling from the BeeGee's )

Frankly I will be presently surprised if, all the bugs are fixed and we only have occasional reports to post here. Plus we have occasional abuse of the abuse button. And other matters. One thing that thankfully has been fixed for some (including myself) is the problem of being logged out every 2,3,4 hours.

Report · Nov 24, 2009

<content deleted by self>

Report · Nov 24, 2009

I choose number 3.

Report · Nov 24, 2009

To me, the stated issues have not been a problem, but that is just me, and probably due primarily reflective of the particular product fora, that I frequent.

To me, and resulting in the same conclusion, it's more about being able to use the fora to instruct others. That is being compromised, IMO, and is resulting in major frustrations.

OK, this is a bit of a rant, but a mild one. The Adobe product fora do a better job of solving user's problems, than T/S is currently capable of. These fora do the "heavy-lifting," and many more problems are solved.

I do not know the costs of these fora vs the cost of outsourced T/S, but in regards to success, I think that we are way, way ahead. We are doing what T/S once was capable of. Also, there is no direct cost for our services. There are no benefits. Other than being invited to be a beta tester on several programs, Adobe has never offered me anything. Even then, when the program was released, I was not even offered a discount. Still, I do this, 'cause I like to help others, and have been a loyal Adobe user for decades.

However, Adobe (and probably Jive) seem to be working at cross-purposes. They keep making it more difficult for many of use to help other users. Why? I have not a clue. Were I in management, I would look around and would comment that our company has this great asset - knowledgable users, who volunteer their time, to do what we pay T/S for. Why not help them, help others? Makes sense to me, but then I have been out of "corporate US" for many, many years.

Just my take,

Hunt

Report · Nov 25, 2009

Why? I have not a clue.

because you can't charge 30 bux a case when there's better FREE support available on your own website.

Were I in management, I would look around and would comment that our company has this great asset - knowledgable users, who volunteer their time, to do what we pay T/S for. Why not help them, help others?

were you in middle or lower management, you MIGHT say that if you had no hope of ever moving up in the kind of company adobe's becoming.

if you were an "up-and-comer" or if you were in upper management you'd say that "tech support can be a profit center, not a drain on the budget. let's continually make the programs more and more difficult to learn and use. let's not fix any but the most glaring bugs going forward. let's introduce scores more features (and bugs) with every new version. THEN, let the excellent free tech support that's grown up around our forums wither and die so that we'll be able to charge for even the most basic stuff!"

Report · Nov 25, 2009

Just because a company thinks a person is important does not mean they are needed too.

Report · Nov 25, 2009

Dave,

&

Hunt

Report · Nov 25, 2009

if you were an "up-and-comer" or if you were in upper management you'd say that "tech support can be a profit center, not a drain on the budget. let's continually make the programs more and more difficult to learn and use. let's not fix any but the most glaring bugs going forward. let's introduce scores more features (and bugs) with every new version. THEN, let the excellent free tech support that's grown up around our forums wither and die so that we'll be able to charge for even the most basic stuff!"

Oddly enough, I have found myself thinking much the same thing myself. How very strange....

For many years I had taken the view that Adobe (and other software companies) had really no choice but to devolve (so to speak) technical support upon the users by means of user-to-user forums. The number of OS, the varieties of printer, and so on, with all the interactions meant (to me) that there would be many, many questions that could not be answered by an underpaid TS staff with 'cheat sheets' in front of them. (Once, during one of my not-at-all-very-satisfactory experiences with the paid tech support Adobe offered, when I questioned the guy on the other end about something he had said, he replied "Look, the sheet in front of me says...." Not very impressive.) The thing is, the really knowledgable and capable folks in TS leave for better paying jobs elsewhere as soon as they can, so far as I understand. (Someone who had worked in TS once told me that my understanding was correct.) So we come back to the user-to-user forums....

Anyway, I'm wasting my breaktime.

Report · Nov 27, 2009

Kami,

That thinking could be a "double-edged sword." On one hand, Adobe could generate some revenue from the charges. OTOH, so very much has been made of the current state of Adobe Support, that the bad feelings and bad press would likely offset any $'s, by loosing existing customers. Were I on the upper floors in San Jose, I'd go for the loss in short-term revenue, in favor of a lasting, positive experience for my client.

Still, Adobe stock is staying pretty good, and looking better in the eyes of some analysts. Obviously, some folk do not have to deal with the current state of Support, and probably have no Adobe software, beyond Acrobat Viewer.

For me, the fora are perfect at helping many users with most issues. Remember, the mantra from T/S is "uninstall/reinstall. If that doesn't work, post to the appropriate forum... "

Hunt

Report · Nov 27, 2009

Right on all counts.

Report · Dec 03, 2009

Eight months since the forum changeover... Still a mess...

a step forward, two back. (The line-break just

happened and again!) For any mod, am on FF 3.5.5.) Two steps forward, one back... I seriously can't understand this. Is no top honcho from Adobe paying attention? It really boggles the mind.

We have John C labouring on, Kanguyen (sp?) seems to have disappeared – and i, for one, don't blame her at all! – we have others fishing around and trying to give solutions and work-arounds – none of which should, or would, be neccessary if these forums worked like all other forums outside the Adobe world seem to be and are working... And all these, largely, fruitless efforts aimed at solving very basic problems that, really, should not even exist. This whole experience smacks of total indifference and apathy from the powers that be. My mind really boggles (i love that word!) that this has not become an issue at the higher levels of the Adobe stratosphere...

An excellent resource and a unique user experience is going down the drain and nobody seems to care... Truly incredible.

But i guess it's symptomatic of the new Adobe Experience... Heavy on 'flash', smoke and mirrors and very short on substance...as witnessed by the increasingly buggy software – new versions emerging with, increasingly, new buggy features and no attempt to repair or address known and well-documented bugs in previous versions... Guess, these equally buggy forums are therefore, but to be expected.

Oh well...