Deeply concerned over new terms of service agreement

[ckuehne]

I was seeing that people were launching Photoshop and seeing an agreement they had to accept in order to launch it, and it sounded like anything at all being created or altered in Photoshop could be used by Adobe in any way they want. I did not see this same thing pop-up in After Effects, this morning. Does anyone know if this is being planned for After Effects as well? My concern is that clients will not allow me to use After Effects, at all, if any footage I use in it is being sent to Adobe to be used however they like.

[֑nubnubbud]

I did stop using cloud services, and the moment I heard of this, I removed what I could, but no longer have access to one of my film groups' accounts with the media on frame.io which I'm pretty sure uses adobe cloud systems.

The issue is, Adobe did not allow me to say no. I was forced to say yes in order to opt out later. 
this is downright illegal, because it removed my agency, even if only for a few minutes, to say no or react to unilateral changes in the TOS- and it takes only moments to download media- even less because some of it was already on adobe's servers at the time of the change.
Essentially, they developed a system which interrupted my ability to decline the new TOS long enough for my decision not to matter, and long enough for them to do what they want to my media without my knowledge or consent.

[kglad]

ok

[jenniferkeith]

I'm wondering how long I have to find another option if this is happening or imminent.

[Kevin Stohlmeyer]

@jenniferkeith nothing has changed in the terms of service.

The issue is Adobe forced users to read them. These have been in place for over a decade and are standard in order to use a cloud sharing service like Creative Cloud.

This is from Scott Belsky at Adobe:

"(1) any modern cloud service has legal screening requirements like child exploitation imagery - the TOS ability to review is legally required for those who host content.
(2) the license required “solely for the purpose of operating…” is required to do basic things for customers, like making thumbnails, open a file on the Photoshop web app, index for search, etc. and when we support third-party integrations for workflows, that requires a sublicense.
(3) we have always used ML to improve masking, selection and other basic tools, but explicitly don’t train Firefly GenAI on customer content, it is trained on a licensed dataset with a customer compensation program that is well documented.”

“But I agree the summary wording is unclear and I’ve given that feedback to legal. the actual TOS are similar to any other modern software provider with cloud features that requires the service be able to ‘access’ a file — like when a user wants to open it on Photoshop web app, needs files indexed for search purposes, chooses to share a document for review online with a colleague, auto-tagging in Lightroom, or other cloud-enabled capabilities. And many of these capabilities technically require a license ‘solely for the purpose of operating’ as stated. Adobe has had something like this in TOS for over a decade."

[jenniferkeith]

Ok. Thank you for this. I know Adobe has illegally scraped artists - at
least those that have provided stock resources, so I honestly don’t trust
them at all. At least they are not specifically saying they can access our
art right from the app and use it to train their AI. Though I believe that
will happen in some form anyhow. They’ve sadly lost the trust of a whole
bunch of people that used to love them. Thanks again for responding.


<>

Jennifer

[ private informations removed by moderator for security reasons ]

[Kevin Stohlmeyer]

Thats compeltely false. Adobe trained firefly on Adobe Stock and had opt outs and compensated contributors. Please check your facts before making inflammatory statements. 
https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/firefly-faq-for-adobe-stock-contributors.html

[Kevin Stohlmeyer]

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use

[jenniferkeith]

Then why are you being sued? Anyway, beyond the copyright stuff, it's huge issue to artists that you've added AI to apps. That's just undermining our ability to make a living. My feelings about Adobe have changed 180 degrees in the past year or so and I'm not the only one. You have a very unhappy customer base, as I'm sure you know.

[Kevin Stohlmeyer]

@jenniferkeith Curious as to where you are getting these ideas from? Sources? Where did you see Adobe is being sued? Adobe is not Midjourney or Stable Diffusion (both involved in lawsuits). Adobe AI is about as ethical as any AI can get in fact.... https://www.fastcompany.com/90906560/adobe-feels-so-confident-its-firefly-generative-ai-wont-breach-...

[compass2k]

Explain the new (forced) terms where Adobe claims they have equal ownership over user content.
I notice all their minions are using the 'standard clouds service' conditions line but its not remotely true. 
As soon as I finish my current projects I'm switching to black magic and affinity too your continuous price rises are obscene but there is no way my clients are accepting that their IP is yours just to use your overpriced apps.

[Monika Gause]

This is the community forum. 

Here is a statement by Adobe: https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use 

[Abambo]

Explain the new (forced) terms where Adobe claims they have equal ownership over user content.

By @compass2k

As long as you do not use online services, there is no content that leaves your computer. And for sure, Adobe is not claiming ownership over any content, except their own. As for the rest check here: https://community.adobe.com/t5/creative-cloud-services-discussions/stop-stealing-our-creative-works-...

[jenniferkeith]

Here's one:

https://petapixel.com/2023/12/14/adobe-sued-by-watchdog-over-mass-data-collection-of-dutch-citizens/

[kglad]

@jenniferkeith 

In response, Adobe stated that the mass claim was based on a misunderstanding and denied the allegations of privacy violation. Adobe claimed that it is the clients' own websites that gather this data, and the software company merely processes them.

Adobe explained in a written statement that the client is the data controller and, in that capacity, makes decisions and bears responsibility for which cookies are placed on their websites. According to the company, clients are also responsible for how they use the collected data.

Clients using Adobe Experience Cloud, the program central to SDBN's complaint, have the option to tailor cookie consent requests to local laws, according to Adobe.

[ricardoh50108263]

But this is the part being missed- this is *directly* from what you linked by Adobe

"

• You have a choice to not participate in our product improvement program. We may use usage data and content characteristics to improve your product experience and develop features like masking and background removal among others through techniques including machine learning (NOT generative AI). You always have the option of opting out of our desktop product improvement programs."

Note that not training generative AI is NOT the same as "we don't use your content to train AI/ML"- in fact, they are saying *right there* that they can.

The issue is not that there's an opt-out but that everyone at least 1-2 years ago was default-ed opt-in. I  don't have a problem with Adobe askign for permission, my issue is this default-opt in when it hapepned, and people may not even now. I have a photographer friend that discovered exactly that.

[kglad]

in the future, to find the best place to post your message, use the list here, https://community.adobe.com/

p.s. i don't think the adobe website, and forums in particular, are easy to navigate, so don't spend a lot of time searching that forum list. do your best and we'll move the post (like this one has already been moved) if it helps you get responses.

<"moved from using the community illustrator"> 

[przone]

I work with companies that provide me with information and images under a non-disclosure agreement. Adobe's new terms seem to ask me to sign over access to these NDA-protected images. That cannot happen. What do I do?

[kglad]

don't use adobe cloud services.

[kglad]

in the future, to find the best place to post your message, use the list here, https://community.adobe.com/

p.s. i don't think the adobe website, and forums in particular, are easy to navigate, so don't spend a lot of time searching that forum list. do your best and we'll move the post (like this one has already been moved) if it helps you get responses.

<"moved from acccount, payment & plan">

[realistic graphics]

Hello, I am writing to express my deep dissatisfaction with the recent changes to your Terms of Service. In particular, I am extremely concerned about the condition requiring my consent for Adobe to use a "Machine Learning AI" to process my data, personal information on my computer, and uploaded content in order to "improve your services and products."

I also find Section 4, "Your Content," particularly Section 4.1, highly problematic. This section defines "Content" as "any text, information, communication, or material, such as audio- and video files, electronic documents, or images, that you upload, import into, embed for use by, or create using the Service and Software."

Under these circumstances, particularly given that I will lose access to my paid programs and content if I do not agree to the new terms, and that there is no option to reject the changes or display alternatives, I feel compelled to voice my discontent. How does Adobe dare to demand the right to see, read, and analyze my personal data on my computer? This demand is disproportionate and completely unacceptable.

In light of Adobe's now evident intentions and the resulting loss of trust, I have decided to no longer use Adobe software for my work in the film industry and creative development. I cannot imagine remaining contractually bound to Adobe under these "Terms of Use" conditions. Both my business partners and my employees agree that several competing products have become significantly more attractive due to Adobe's actions.

I urge you to reconsider these concerning changes and provide users with the option to refuse consent without losing access to paid programs and content.

[kglad]

@realistic graphics 

read: https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use

[kglad]

@realistic graphics 

in the future, to find the best place to post your message, use the list here, https://community.adobe.com/

p.s. i don't think the adobe website, and forums in particular, are easy to navigate, so don't spend a lot of time searching that forum list. do your best and we'll move the post (like this one has already been moved) if it helps you get responses.

<"moved from using the community ideas">

[PaintKatt]

I need to know whether or not Adobe is allowing cloud accounts to be scraped by AI apps for images and data. What is the privacy policy?

[erinferinferinf]

Hi @PaintKatt !

You happened to post during Adobe's holiday break, but this is an interesting question! I'll pass it along to the lawyers...

[kglad]

good luck, https://www.adobe.com/privacy/policy.html