how can I live without vector paint?

[the_remote_controller]

hey everyone

I use the vector paint plugin in AECS3 to create hand-drawn style line art animations.

I use vector paint applied to a solid together with my wacom cintiq to draw lines freehand. sometimes I use the 'animate strokes' setting within vector paint to make it look like the strokes are being drawn on.

there are some downsides to this plugin over the standard AE paint engine (principally that I cannot edit individual strokes, easily retime my strokes, or apply masks to my paint layer without precomping), but vector paint wins for me for 2 critical reasons:

1. I can paint directly in the comp window, meaning I can easily trace directly over another layer in my comp; and

2. Vector Paint has a built in wiggle engine which enables me to wiggle my paint strokes - this makes the images I draw feel dynamic and alive. it suits the simple hand drawn style of the animation.

as anyone who reads this forum will be aware, vector paint has been removed from CS5. I am needing to upgrade my creative suite but I need to be able to continue making this look for my clients.

my question to you all is how can I continue creating animations in this style with CS5?

Any feedback would be *most* appreciated!

cheers

dan

here are some examples of the kind of animation I am refferring to -some of these are WIPs so appear quite rough!

[slampig]

I am surprised that no one else has picked up the ball.  Does anyone know of any other plug ins?  Third party vendors, there's some $$$ to be made.

I too am saddened by the loss of vector paint, and I agree with Mr. Tompkinson, Adobe dropped the brush.

They could have concentrated on making the new interface work like vector paint's most important feature: drawing in and on a comp and seeing live results. 

But they are managers and programmers, and we are artists and visionaries.

[Rick Gerard]

But they are managers and programmers, and we are artists and visionaries.

They are also artists and they lisetn to us. Sometimes changes require sacrifice. Vector paint wasn't compatible with other improvements so a financial and artistic decision had to be made. Personally I never used it though I have done about 30 projects in the last year that looked like I was using Vector paint. I just used Illustrator, masks, strokes and some animation presets to do the same thing.

If you're using vector paint for roto then rotobrush is a great improvement. If you're using vector paint to simulate hand drawn animations then there are more efficient ways to do it. For me, the benefits of the new tools outweigh and different techniques used to create the same effect outweigh the old plug-in.

If you want to give Adobe your artists voice and request that they put something like Vector Paint back in the tool box then plese submit a feature request here. That's where things like Camera Tracking, Warp Stabilizer, and RotoBrush came from.

[bobtilton]

Very sorry to be an ass, but nope, you don't know vector paint like a lot of folks on this thread know vector paint. If there was a viable replacement for it in place, we wouldn't be bitching about it's omission. You may think you've achieved a similar look to vector paint, but that is completely not the point. It is the functionality and the integration that was so useful and necessary. The "new tools" don't hold a candle to the ease of use and versatility that vector paint had. Lastly, it was a financial decision to exclude the plugin from after effects. I'm almost positive it would have matched their couch. Anyway, I know it sounds like I'm firing off at you, Rick, but I'm really just rehoisting the flag a bit more against Adobe's resonant attitude toward this tool. I miss it, daily - no exaggeration.

[slampig]

I miss it daily too.

Then I miss a lot of things that After Effect could have.  Folders in the time line, real-time audio, a good collaborative multi-user project solution.

More then I care to share, because in the end it is their program and not mine.

[the_remote_controller]

I agree with bobtilton here - I miss it daily... and have even had recourse on several projects to reinstall CS3 just to create handrawn elements that I couldn't produce the same way in CS6. Rick you suggest there are more efficient ways to build the same effect - I'd love to hear them explained in detail because maybe I'm missing something. Also I'm VERY familar with the feature request process - i've requested new vector paint along with what seems like many other artists who have contributed to this thread. adobe has said its coming... i guess (like ray traced 3d) its taking a loooooong time to render.

dan

[geoff_tompkinson]

It was left out because they didn't have time to rewrite it to work with the 64bit versions of AE.

I used to use it as a basic matte tool to visually brush- in effects, visibility, layers etc.

I have ranted about its removal repeatedly but have now given up.

Good luck with adding it to the requests box. I used to do that every few months as well.

Sent from my iPhone

[Todd_Kopriva]

What we're hoping to do is add the features that you miss (painting in the Composition panel, onion skinning, wiggly strokes) to the paint and shape features, rather than revive an effect with the name Vector Paint.

See this:

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2012/12/top-feature-requests-for-after-effects-in-2012.html

[bobtilton]

That's one tasty link, Todd. Thanks!

[Guest]

I've been seeing this thread for years. I will look at Todd's link but I just don't understand why, with all the paint capabilities of Photoshop, they can't just add the features to of vector paint back into AE. After all, they have included basically 75% of Illustrator into Photoshop- why can't they put 1% of Photoshop into AE?

It doesn't seem like it is asking for alot since they've alredy had the feature. I want to be able to paint in the alpha channel of a layer and see the result live in the composition as I'm doing it!

[the_remote_controller]

todd kopriva you are an angel.

a silver tongued, plugin-teasing little angel... while it gives me great hope to know that you are "personally working to make sure this need is satisfied as soon as possible",  in the same breath you refuse to lock yourself into any kind of timeframe as to WHEN. I shelled out big bucks for CS6 in the hope that giving y'all some more money would encourage you to put out.. but turns out you're just like every girlfriend I've ever had.

ok ok i'll talk about my feelings even! i just wanna paint in your comp window! just for 5 minutes! i'll render all night if i have to... as long as i can wiggle my strokes...

i just re-requested via the good ole FR form - if you're reading this thread for the first time or the 100th time, why not pop on over and file again. it only takes a second. if we keep on knocking, sooner or later they'll let us in.

dan

r e m o t e  l i m i t e d

+6421 768 998

www.remote.co.nz

[bobtilton]

sooooooo... no dice, huh.

I was so very hopeful when I installed CC just now - even had a job that so could have used painting in the comp window, wiggling strokes, etc.

Well, let's get this party started, again. Todd, what's the good word? Do we need to keep voting on that page?

[Todd_Kopriva]

I think that we have enough information on this at this point.

Our current plan--subject to change depending on many factors, of course--is to do substantial work on the paint features for After Effects releases targeted at 2014, with specific work being done to add functionality similar to that in Vector Paint (onion skinning, painting in the Composition panel, wiggly strokes). So, though we can't make promises about future features, this is a high priority for us for the near future.

We'll keep you apprised when we have more information.

[remote_dan]

>> this is a high priority for us for the near future.

it's fortunate you don't require the features of Vector Paint in order to cut and paste marketing dept responses into forum posts...

lets just keep..... waiting.... until..... 2014.... sigh.

[Eyeraw]

How about you stop adding new features before you reimplement necessary ones you've removed? As a near-monopoly, Adobe has an obligation not to cut off the needs of whole segments of users at a whim. What users actually value most are improvements to the basic functionality of the programs, not new speculative bloatware features added as a way to entice users to upgrade. And you may think we're too stupid to notice, but you're only preparing us to accept any alternatives to your monopoly at the first opportunity, rather than remain loyal customers as new competators emerge. Ignore your users at your peril.

[slampig]

GOOD F'n CALL THERE! HA

[Amit5000]

So... this just came up for me with a new order on a show that I had used Vector Paint extensively for sketching on-screen.  The wiggling, the recording of my entire drawing (with the SHIFT option), not to mention the painting over the whole comp, are three things that I just can't replicate with the current Paint tool.  It seems ridiculous that you would put resources towards new features while abandoning the updating of the UI for the old vector paint.  As you've noted, imported projects with Vector Paint effects still render is CC, it's only the effect UI that has gone missing.

If you you really are working on incorporating the features of Vector Paint into Paint, I hope you will also focus on a better way of recording a sequence of strokes.  Even using the write-on option within Paint is far inferior to VP's ability to record all of my strokes as asequence, and doesn't leave me with a stack of hundreds of individual strokes.  Then it's incredibly annoying to sequence the strokes myself and individually speed up every stroke, and having to use keyframes gives you more flexibilty, but it is unneeded.   I've also noticed that my strokes in Paint tend to be more stepped and not as smooth as VP, although if I draw more slowly it does seem to help (but that's not the point).

Also, maybe it's just me, but I miss the aboility to use Vector Paint to reveal an image directly from within the effect.  To do the same thing with Paint is a two-layer multi-step process.  For this particular project it multiplies out to being a lot of work - tedious duplicate layer, remove effect, set track matte, and repeat, work.  And even then I don't get the wiggle.

The fact is, in many ways Paint is far more robust than Vector Paint, but in others it just can not (does not) have the same functionality.  With everything AE does, it seems obvious that the two effects can and should coexist in the current software.  Heck, throw Vector Paint under the "obsolete" effects list, I just want to work the way I like to work and AE has always been about versatility so I don't see why throwing a couple more man hours at updating the UI for 64bits should be any sort of impediment.

Please bring Vector Paint back.  Thanks

[bobtilton]

This is my repeated experience almost every month. The truly nutty thing about Adobe's ability to ignore the importance of the functionality of Vector Paint, and the non-functionality of Paint is that this thread isn't at all about bringing back this effect. It is about a lack of vital functionality within the software. Vector Paint was a very necessary tool in the masking and editing of layers within a comp. Paint just simply blows all kinds of chimp in comparison. Thanks for weighing in and articulating, Amit5000.

What's it going to take to move the ambiguous 2014 timeline a little closer, Todd?

[the_remote_controller]

Hey guys

I started this thread over 3 YEARS ago, after the release of CS5. Remember CS5? Me neither.

Whilst I'm quietly proud of such a long running thread, it is in fact a sad indictment against the a development team who pride themselves in being responsive and tuned in to the needs and feedback of their users.

ADOBE YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO US.

I have been working professionally using this software for over 10 years and the moment this tool was removed from the app I started asking for it to be returned - i think this thread is proof I am not alone.

I really hope that we can get this worked out soon. Meanwhile, I'm gonna go demo Smoke.

dan

[Szalam]

Should they have neglected the full functionality of Vector Paint in the move to 64-bit? Possibly not, but if they had received more feature requests, it would have recieved a higher priority to be reintroduced.

the remote controller wrote:

Whilst I'm quietly proud of such a long running thread, it is in fact a sad indictment against the a development team who pride themselves in being responsive and tuned in to the needs and feedback of their users.

This forum thread is hardly an indication that Adobe is not listening.

For one thing, this is a user-to-user forum, not an official way to contact Adobe.

Secondly, this thread has had very few posts over the years compared to the vast size of Adobe's AE customer base.

Thirdly, despite all of this, we're told that the AE team is working to re-introduce this functionality to a future version of AE.

One bonus of this new subscription-based model is that they are now incentivized to make stuff that their customers need to be productive instead of shiny new features to try to woo us into upgrading to yet another new version every year. I believe the new features in the imminent update are a good example of this postive new move and the comments in this thread that they are bringing the functionality of Vector Paint in a future version is another good indication that they are listening.

[Amit5000]

It seems they have been getting a lot of feature requests, as it is listed in the 2012 list of top feature requests.  I hope they are actually following through and am surprised it has taken as long as it has, but I guess it really is a difficult feature to re-implement.  I have submitted this request myself a few times.  While this forum is not the most direct route to contact Adobe, it does seem that they are, at least occasionally, reading it. Even if it is taking forever I appreciate that they are working on it and responding at least, which is feedback I have never gotten from submitting a feature request.

What I find a little sad is that the features have been left out of AE for so long - Vector Paint, whether the developers know it or not, was (is) a very useful tool and I would bet new users would appreciate it's functionality, and if they had access to it would be equally put out by having it pulled.  There just is not a better way to do an animated sketch (altho I'd love to be proven wrong), and I wish they would have built up the features in Vector Paint rather than abandoning it altogether.

My workaround - to re-install CS4, hardly seems ideal.  It was also problematic and caused constant crashing of AE every time I would paint a few strokes.  The fix, in case anyone has a similar issue (on a 64bit OS), is to run CS4 in WinXP emulation mode.  I was turned onto this fix via another thread (credit to Brian Hoard):

Right-clicked on the After Effects shortcut.  Chose Properties->Shortcut tab->Compatibility->Checked "Run this program in compatibily mode for "Windows XP (Service Pack 3).

All other settings left unchecked.

Hit OK.

Relaunch AfterFX and the Vector Paint effect works great now!

[Szalam]

I think you're right. It was a great tool and I'm still mystified as to why it got ignored. I also agree that it's likely not an easy thing to bring back. With them pushing out new tools like the Roto Brush, Refine Matte, and the (in my opinion less-than-stellar) Ray Traced renderer, I can see how they wouldn't have time to bring back the old things.

Again, this is an example of being made to push out cool new shiny things to try to entice us to upgrade rather than giving us the tools we actually need. I look forward to the new changes the subscription model is going to bring us where they will start focussing on keeping us happy.

[BEEJ2]

Adobe are responding with the right answers. But we are seeing no results.

Vector paint was a very powerfull tool that worked very well on my 6 year old G5 tower. I am finding it hard to work out WHAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM??

I am no software developer so can't comment on the logistics of bringing it back. But I do know that we all have more powerfull machines and after effects now runs in 64 bit - so why the delay?

There is no workaround. There is no alternative 3rd party plug in?

We are left only with this thread and the suggestions form as our only hope.

Im sure if the guys at AE scripts put thier minds to it they could develop it? So why can't Adobe?

I would be interested to hear WHY? Im sure its not that easy - but surely all the top guys at abobe and years and years of development should be able to get an effect similar to CS3 Vector paint....  no?... surely? (I think it was actually working on version 5 of after effects?? in 2002? nearly 12 years on and we still can't reproduce it? Its actually a bit of a joke in my opinion.

Thanks Todd for your work and concerns.

If you did'nt use Vector paint you wouldn't know its power - and prob don't care.

But if you became reliant on this feature - just like many people in this thread then you would realise how powerfull, versatile and great this feature was.

Please can you let us poor Vector Paint addicts knbow what is happening?

Thanks

[Todd_Kopriva]

The current state is this:

There are three major features of the Vector Paint effect that large numbers of people miss: painting in the Composition panel, onion skinning, and wiggly strokes.

The first two of these are currently high on the priority list for releases to happen next year. Wiggly strokes by itself is not as high on the priority list, but we're looking at a way to do something even better regarding strokes in After Effects in general.

Just because I say that something is high on our priority list for next year does not mean that it'll necessary get done by then. We have a very small team, and something might come up that pushes this work further out. (Just keeping up with Apple's OS changes consumes a lot of our effort, for example.)

Keep in mind that this conversation is not Vector Paint considered in isolation. There are bug fixes and other feature work to do that the great majority of After Effects users have told us that they'd prefer that we do before spending our time on Vector Paint or its components. That's what the feature request form is for---so that you can cast your vote.

[Todd_Kopriva]

> It was a great tool and I'm still mystified as to why it got ignored.

It was not ignored.

The Vector Paint effect used a huge amount of custom UI in the Composition panel, and that UI code would have needed to be ported specially for the 64-bit conversion in After Effects CS5. Consider that the Vector Paint section of After Effects Help was something like 30 pages, and that gives you a rough sense of how much underlying code there was to port.

The After Effects team could not have made the ship date for After Effects CS5 with a functioning 64-bit version if it had ported the Vector Paint effect at that time.

[samhamann]

I'll be interested to see what happens.

I talked with a senior After Effects guy at a users group a couple of weeks ago and he said flat out, "It ain't comin' back." period.