Known Participant

Question

how can I live without vector paint?

Forum|Forum|15 years ago
September 1, 2010
9 replies
52937 views

hey everyone

I use the vector paint plugin in AECS3 to create hand-drawn style line art animations.

I use vector paint applied to a solid together with my wacom cintiq to draw lines freehand. sometimes I use the 'animate strokes' setting within vector paint to make it look like the strokes are being drawn on.

there are some downsides to this plugin over the standard AE paint engine (principally that I cannot edit individual strokes, easily retime my strokes, or apply masks to my paint layer without precomping), but vector paint wins for me for 2 critical reasons:

1. I can paint directly in the comp window, meaning I can easily trace directly over another layer in my comp; and

2. Vector Paint has a built in wiggle engine which enables me to wiggle my paint strokes - this makes the images I draw feel dynamic and alive. it suits the simple hand drawn style of the animation.

as anyone who reads this forum will be aware, vector paint has been removed from CS5. I am needing to upgrade my creative suite but I need to be able to continue making this look for my clients.

my question to you all is how can I continue creating animations in this style with CS5?

Any feedback would be *most* appreciated!

cheers

dan

here are some examples of the kind of animation I am refferring to -some of these are WIPs so appear quite rough!

DrTc

Inspiring

Yet another version, still no vector paint or equivalent functionality...
What is it, 6 years now, a 32bit effect cannot be ported to 64bit?

And no, stickey paint does not cover what VP could do...

Back to opening CS4 just for VP.

Roei Tzoref

Brainiac

I don't think it's coming back. I remember using it a long time ago and enjoying it too. can you specify exactly what are you trying to accomplish and your exact workflow scenario so we may offer a workaround if possible?

DrTc

Inspiring

Roei, if you have a quick look at this threads previous pages you can see where explicitly I mention the functionality VP offered and is not available today.

Basically a paint recorder, where one draws in the comp (and not layer) window, and has the strokes recorded, REAL time, (no going down to TL fixing brush stroke lengths,) and then being able to play it back at any speed. The only caveat VP had was it needed one to hold the Shift key while recording.

Have tried workarounds from Ai to AE, but again not the same, if AE could only get a "fill paths sequentially" option like the stroke fx does.

G

George_Griffin

New Participant

Excuse the long-winded piling on below:

I just upgraded to 5.5 and have found again to my dismay that Adobe has not re-integrated VP. Having sent another "feature request" I'd like to add to this thread again, this time from the POV of my particular practice which is experimental, collage, and cartoon animation. Many of us appreciate the compositing (fundamental to AE) and now 64 bit. Rendering is a so fast. But there is a large segment of the animation world which does not use Maya and Flash. I meet them at film festivals, on panels, in schools. Their primary tools are PS and AE, i.e. painting, sequencing, and compositing. VP has always been that extra bit that can add touches and alter lines. I have used it ever since it was acquired from Cult. The ability to draw in the Comp, over another layer (or many layers), and instantly preview, has led to numerous design solutions.

Coming out of the film world I taught at Pratt and Parsons here in NYC and shifted my classes to AE as soon as I mastered the transition. In addition to grafting my workflow onto AE I found that one could start drawing and animating from scratch, using onion skinning, then adding exciting additional styles to the line (think roughen edges) and matte in boiling textures to give the line internal character. And this was in addition to wiggling, which is an inadequate term for the powerful kinetic distortions than can be introduced and controlled. AE was THE app that built on the importance of the artist's hand to create drawings in time.

When Adobe made its decision to drop VP (seems like ages) we were told that "maybe" it would come back if enough users wanted it. To those who say they never used it or didn't know what the fuss is about, my reaction is "who asked you?" To those who say "use AE3, quit, open 5.5" I say what if you want to alter or continue? Isn't mutability an essential function of any app?

I assume Adobe based it decision on a theory of "collateral damage," that VP users were just an unfortunate, dispensible minority; that the majority have "other priorities" and would ignore the loss. I can understand that improvement can have unintended consequences, but I can't understand why the developers don't level with us and admit they cannot or will not restore VP; or better say it can be done and will be done.

GG

G

geoff tompkinson

Participating Frequently

I agree with all your comments but would just like to say that I work in a completely different way and still rely on VP. I produce short movie clips for ImageBank Film and part of my standard technique involves me adding an effect to a layer then blanking the layer out by use of a white solid as a luma inverted matte. I can then paint in the invisible matte and brush the effect in or out directly over the composition. I use this not only for applying effects to selected areas but also to apply invisible images layers to the comp as well.

This has been a BASIC ability in graphics programmes since layers were first introduced. It beggars beleif that they have crippled the product by removing this and seemingly are not in any great rush to put it back.

It has been repeatedly suggested to me that I should use a 'workaround' by painting in the layer window and watching the result in the comp window. This is just useless for me.

I have made feature requests at least ten times over the last year or so and encourage everyone who feels the loss of VP to do the same. In the meantime my copies of CS5 and 5.5 remain gathering dust on the top shelf in my office whilst I plod on with CS3.

GT

E

Eyeraw

New Participant

I think that we have enough information on this at this point.

Our current plan--subject to change depending on many factors, of course--is to do substantial work on the paint features for After Effects releases targeted at 2014, with specific work being done to add functionality similar to that in Vector Paint (onion skinning, painting in the Composition panel, wiggly strokes). So, though we can't make promises about future features, this is a high priority for us for the near future.

We'll keep you apprised when we have more information.

How about you stop adding new features before you reimplement necessary ones you've removed? As a near-monopoly, Adobe has an obligation not to cut off the needs of whole segments of users at a whim. What users actually value most are improvements to the basic functionality of the programs, not new speculative bloatware features added as a way to entice users to upgrade. And you may think we're too stupid to notice, but you're only preparing us to accept any alternatives to your monopoly at the first opportunity, rather than remain loyal customers as new competators emerge. Ignore your users at your peril.

A

Anonymous

I would love to go on record in saying that if AE is to be considered a true compositing program, it ought to have the equivalent of vector paint. It is imperative to have the ability to paint in the alpha channel of a layer and see it in real time as it is composited over the layer below. It ought to be put back in to future releases. In the meantime, I jump out to Quantel's eQ or Autodesk has Smoke for the mac desktop which also has a great paint system. A pain in the neck to do but the job has to get done.

G

geoff tompkinson

Participating Frequently

I have not used AE CS 5 or 5.5 since release because of this problem. To me not having the ability to paint in the alpha channel of a layer and see it in real time as it is composited over the layer below is liking having a Ferrari with one of the wheels missing. Quite incredible that they released a crippled product like this, and even more incredible that they have done noting about releasing a fix or a firm announcement of re-inclusion in the next release.

I have send reminders to the adobe suggestions team every couple of months for over a year now and in the meantime CS5 and 5.5 sit in a box on a shelf in front of me whilst I use CS3 for 8 hours a day. Madness.

DrTc

Inspiring

...what surprises me is, there are no third party add-ons /plug ins (that I know of) which will do this sort of thing, an advanced paint engine for AE.
At the same time so many plugins around have overlapping functions, glows, blurs, noise, 3d text, time remapping etc.

If one knows of a paint addon, it'd be nice to share.

S

Starfox99

New Participant

I too have just discovered that Vector Paint has gone, I was just about to do a nice little animated tree I'm very bummed to see it's not there it was a very fun feature with loads of uses. Consider my form filled in... Happy AE'ing.

P

peter_bunzl

New Participant

Hi,

I too use vector paint all the time:

As a quick way to tweak travelling mattes, I also occasionally use it to create line animations.

I am really annoyed that this feature has been discontinued, it is actually one of the features I use most in after effects.

I hope there is some kind of alternative available

or else the feature is restored!

Thank you

Peter

Szalam

Community Expert

If you like Vector Paint, follow the link given in the previous post to file a feature request. If they get enough people doing that, it'll come back.

G

geoff tompkinson

Participating Frequently

Hi Szalam,

Yeah I have done that about ten times so far - I figure if I keep doing it

maybe they will get the message.

I actually have the latest version but cannot use it for this reason so have

de-installed it. Should have asked for my money back really.

Perhaps I'll sell it on e-bay.

G

George_Griffin

New Participant

Although Dan's original post has caught Adobe's attention I want to add one more squeak to the wheel. It was great to read all the confirmations from other animators who use AE for sequence drawing in the Comp window. It has been an invaluable tool since Adobe acquired the Cult Effects package.

I'm hoping they can restore (and improve) this functionality soon. And why not add some kind of exposure sheet window too?

GG

DrTc

Inspiring

I'm hoping they can restore (and improve) this functionality soon.

+1 for this!

VP used to need Shift key held down in Quick Paint mode.

Why not have a nice little checkbox instead?

Also being able to change brush tip, size & colour while in this mode without loosing what has been already painted on screen andwithout having to hunt it through the TL.

In other words, the ability to fully record the painting session sequence more or less like Painter has since v3.

Ideally merging VP with Paint, and using best features of both, plus the ability to import brushes from PS.

thebobwolf

Inspiring

Dan you are not alone.

I'm not quite sure what your reasons Adobe have for removing this very useful feature it would be great if they could maybe make it an optional plugin that you can install yourself should you want to.

I'm an After effects animator at The Mill in London and I use Vector paint constantly. ONe of the main advantages over normal paint is being able to paint within the comp and on alpha enabling you to trace or matte out images.

Apart from that VERY important feature there is the wiggle feature. I use this sooooo much to achieve a 'hand animated' style.

Also the onion skinning abilities of this little plugin make it an essential for anyone wanting to animate within after effects.

Just the ability to be able to freehand draw directly in vector paint is enough to at least keep it in after effects, why remove it completely?

Should any 3rd party developers be reading, this would be a useful project that would help loads of animators....

I urge people to join the campaign to bring back Vector Paint!

^_^

B

bobtilton

Participating Frequently

Atta boy, Wolf. You've touched on some great features of the Vector Paint plugin. Another deficit that I've painfully realized this week in production with the brush plugin is the ability to smooth any drawn lines.

I think a good course of action would be to send this up on some of the sites such as motionographer. It's a little bit of a boys club to get a post on there, but since you're at The Mill, somebody might perk up their ears. If enough folks make some noise there, I bet Adobe would suddenly find the inspiration to reinstate the effect.

Worst case, maybe kickstarter.com is a way to get the thing back.

A

ADOBEmcoleman

Adobe Employee

Hi Everyone,

Michael Coleman here. I'm the product manager for After Effects. I'd like to respond to a couple points in this thread. I can offer a little explanation, and make a small request/suggestion.

First of all, @the remote controller (Dan), I really love your animation. Really beautiful and creative stuff. Thanks for posting the links.

Next, I apologize for the hassle we've created. When we started working on CS5, it was our goal to consolidate the functionality of the vector paint effect and the built-in paint tools. Maintaining 2 paint systems with similar features doesn't really make sense, so it was our plan to combine them. Thanks to the 64-bit conversion, we didn't have the option of leaving it in as is. Unfortunately we underestimated the time it would take, and we simply ran out of time to convert Vector Paint to a 64-bit native effect. We got a ton of awesome things into CS5, but fell a bit short on Vector Paint.

I do ask for your patience while we address this gap. If the workarounds listed in this thread don't work for you, the best way to communicate this to the After Effects development team is to use the feature-request form that Todd mentioned above. Even though a web form seems impersonal and corporate, I assure you that the request goes directly to a living, breathing member of the After Effects team. Starting a thread in other web sites is not an effective way to make yourselves heard. After all, I'm the AE product manager, and I've heard you loud and clear right here on the Adobe forums. Next step: the feature-request form. It really helps us if you use it.

Regards,

Michael Coleman

Mylenium

Brainiac

1. I can paint directly in the comp window, meaning I can easily trace directly over another layer in my comp

You can do that with normal paint just the same by painting on solids on top and setting the brush to paint on transparent and layer and comp windows side by side. You can even get that functionality in the layer window by adding effects like CC Composite before the paint to enforce rendering of the current frame.

2. Vector Paint has a built in wiggle engine which enables me to wiggle my paint strokes - this makes the images I draw feel dynamic and alive. it suits the simple hand drawn style of the animation.

Yes, it's been much lamented but it's not coming back - for a while, anyway. Get yourself a "paint" plug-in liek Video Gogh or learn how to work with displacement effects to get similar results. Occassionally also consider shape layers - there's a Wiggle Path modifier there, after all.

Mylenium

Todd_Kopriva

Inspiring

Before I saw Mylenium's response, I was also going to point you to the Wiggle Paths operator in shape layers. So, here's a link.

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