Thumbnails continually rebuilding

Report · Dec 13, 2012

I got an update for ACR (CS6) today and installed it. Suddenly, EVERY time I open Bridge or return to it from another page, it starts thumbnailing my images from scratch. We're talking hundreds of images in this folder. This is new. It did not do this yesterday. What is going on and how do I fix it. If I leave bridge (even if it's still open) and I go back to Bridge, it starts doing the thumbnail extractions all over again and THEN starts on the full size extractions all over again. The result is that all of Photoshop has slowed to a crawl. This is the second time in a month that an update has caused new problems that did not exist before. It's beyond frustrating.

that's cute. I just sat through 10 minutes of full size extractions counting down. it got to zero and STARTED AGAIN. Okay, guys, what's going on? I have 50 gb of images from Asia I need to process. I truly don't have time for this. And the thumbnail extractions just started over again.

Message title was edited by: Brett N

Report · Jun 22, 2013

Interesting. Terrifying. And often catastrophic for me. Back when I had CS5 on both my desktop and laptop, I experimented with the laptop, which I dubbed my sacrificial lamb. But it has only 1GB of RAM, which isn't enough to run CS6. I wonder if running CS6 using the cloud version would make a difference. Hmmm....

Omke Oudeman wrote:
I learned a long time ago if you don't understand, don't change anything. Truly interesting.
How about this one: change everything to learn as much as possible, that would be truly interesting…

Report · Jun 22, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
This is all intriguing. When I am on my main computer later, I will create an entirely new folder of test images and see if I can notice much difference. Thanks for explaining it all. I truly wonder how my setting got changed. I never even knew there was a choice and would not have known how to do it if that screenshot hadn't been provided. Even if I had somehow clicked on that icon, I wouldn't have entirely understood what it was referring to and I learned a long time ago if you don't understand, don't change anything. Truly interesting.

I created a test folder and beyond a moment when the image is blurry, there is no difference in performance. In other words, I hit the spacebar to bring up a full view and for half a second, the image is not sharp. Then it is. I have a pretty powerful system so I think that is why this is not a problem for my workflow. Meanwhile, it will take far less time for me to thumbnail images in Bridge.

Report · Jun 22, 2013

For those out there who have recreated the regeneration problem, I have a question: What camera are you using. I am using Canon 7D and G11. Has anyone recreated this with a Nikon raw image? I think someone said they had recreated it with a Sony camera but I'm not sure. And I think someone did the same with a DNG, which is interesting since that is supposed to be a digital negative. But if that DNG was from a Canon raw file, would that make a difference?

Report · Jun 22, 2013

Nikon and Panasonic here.

Report · Jun 22, 2013

well, that killed my theory that it is somehow tied to a specific camera.

Report · Jun 23, 2013

But it has only 1GB of RAM, which isn't enough to run CS6. I wonder if running CS6 using the cloud version would make a difference. Hmmm....

Minimum requirement is still 1 GB RAM and 512 MB VRAM but don't expect miracles regarding performance. RAM is very very cheap nowadays, you will benefit much from at least 8 GB RAM but 4 is for me the minimum. (I have 32 GB RAM in my MacPro and that kicks performance…)

Report · Jun 25, 2013

turns out I was wrong. I have 4 gb of ram on the laptop but apparently a glacial processor. this is an old laptop, actually a netbook/notebook hybrid. It is running windows 7 and photoshop cs5...barely.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

Meanwhile, here is something to add to the confusion. I sent a DVD to a friend with two folders: one had 25 raw images (CR2) without any metadata or .xmp file. The other folder had 16 images with my own .xmp files. When she created an .xmp file on her computer (also Windows 7 and CS6 but updated to Raw 7.3) for the 'virgin' raw images, there was no continual regeneration. BUT when she opened the folder with my canon raw images with my .xmp files, all of them regenerated once. But it would do this again if she left the folder. And again. And again. On my computer, it would regenerate all, then part, then part again, regenerating a successively smaller number but start the process all over again the minute I left that folder. On her computer, it regenerates all of them, but then stops. The difference is it does the total regeneration (though only once) EVERY time she opens that folder. When she opens a folder with the images containing images that she created .xmp files for, the regeneration happens only that first time.

I hope that is clear to you all because I'm not sure I am totally coherent at this point.

Further adding to the mystery was a call back I got from Adobe technical support in India at 6am my time. After getting the 16 lb cat off my neck and coming to some wakefulness, I had a long talk with this person who first said it was the first time the adobe tech dept had ever heard of the problem. When I directed her to the adobe forum and mentioned that people who work for adobe had taken sporadic part, she was puzzled and asked me if I had ever filled out a bug report...something I had never heard of. So I have done that. It is a somewhat complicated process. I am curious to see what happens here. Meanwhile, I still haven't had a chance to download CC but, hopefully, things will calm down here long enough for me to do this.

Also, if it's a help, here is a link to the bug report site that the adobe tech department told me to use:

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

the subject titled I used was:

Bridge Continuous Regeneration (Extraction) Bug

I wonder if it would help if those on this forum who have replicated the problem could go to that site (you have to sign in) and add to the report...there is a place at the bottom where they ask people who also have the problem to click. It just adds a number to a total, not your name.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
I had a long talk with this person who first said it was the first time the adobe tech dept had ever heard of the problem. When I directed her to the adobe forum and mentioned that people who work for adobe had taken sporadic part, she was puzzled and asked me if I had ever filled out a bug report...something I had never heard of. So I have done that. It is a somewhat complicated process. I am curious to see what happens here. Meanwhile, I still haven't had a chance to download CC but, hopefully, things will calm down here long enough for me to do this.
Also, if it's a help, here is a link to the bug report site that the adobe tech department told me to use:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform
the subject titled I used was:
Bridge Continuous Regeneration (Extraction) Bug
I wonder if it would help if those on this forum who have replicated the problem could go to that site (you have to sign in) and add to the report...there is a place at the bottom where they ask people who also have the problem to click. It just adds a number to a total, not your name.

So you don't think Adobe employee Brett N is telling the truth when he says: "this has been addressed by the engineering team."? Or do you think maybe "addressed" means that someone wrote it down?

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/unneccesary_bridge_thumbnail_and_preview_extra...

Report · Jun 25, 2013

fascinating. I think...hope... adobe is finally on the issue. what is additionally puzzling is what happened with the test images I sent to my friend. the regenerating didn't happen with my raw images images she had created .xmp files for but did with the ones using .xmp files I had created.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

I wonder if the exchange on this link happened after my posting of issues and discussion with the tech person in India.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

I would not be too excited about discussion with Adobe tech person. I had some converstaions with a Bridge Engineer and she said she would get right on the issue after the Chineese New Year's holiday is over. And that was this year not next. Exchanged a few messages but have not heard anything back recently, although I have not sent a message since mid March.

The "have never heard of problem" is just another way of saying problems are not entered into a searchable database, and everyone is on their own program.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

Yammer & Curt,

I just realized the forum link from feedbackphotoshop.com is Yammer's posting from A YEAR AGO, not my posting from this morning. Double yikes. I don't, honestly know what to say at this point except that I decided to put off the CC upgrade (sigh, once again) until at least tomorrow. And I just tried to open the link Yammer posted and somehow, it no longer works on any of my browsers. this is the link:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/unneccesary_brid ge_thumbnail_and_preview_extr...

Report · Jun 25, 2013

well, it works here but because there's a gap in the word 'bridge' just before 'thumbnail,' it didn't work on my browsers until i closed up the gap:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/unneccesary_bridge_thumbnail_and_preview_extra...

Report · Jun 25, 2013

Ok, I give up. You people see it. Adobe sees it. I don't.

What gives? What do I have to do to make it do the same thing?

I just reset Bridge to generate 100% previews after unchecking that item and purging the files. Next I reset 100% previews, and yep, regenerating started. But it said "generating 100% ", something like that, which is: duh!

Going back to that file does not regenerate anything.

So tell me what I am doning/not doing to avoid this problem. Seems to me since I have the "perfect" machine (hah!) I should be able to infect it with some sort of action on my part which is a legit action. Now that should be reproduceable.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

From my experience with my friend, I am starting to believe it is something either within an individual's Bridge program or perhaps their computer. She is able to recreate the problem using raw images where I created the .xmp file. When she created her own .xmp files for 'virgin' raw images (mine, not hers) the problem did not happen. In other words, she now has a folder (with her own .xmp files for my images) where the problem does NOT occur and another (with my .xmp files for my images) where the problem DOES occur.

This is perhaps another piece for the puzzle.

Report · Jun 26, 2013

the regenerating didn't happen with my raw images images she had created .xmp files for but did with the ones using .xmp files I had created.

Your xmp data is user specific, at least if you have customized this, but at least version specific. If your friend has other settings or other version trying to read the xmp files generated on your system this might cause confusion. (but this is more guessing on my behalf, I always use DNG and both XMP and DNG are universal to read)

Report · Jun 26, 2013

Hudechrome wrote:
What gives? What do I have to do to make it do the same thing?

Try this:

Pick a folder of Raw files, with or without settings. Select all and open in Camera Raw. I just picked 121 from yesterday.

Select all images in filmstrip.

Switch to the Lens Corrections panel (Ctrl-Alt-6) and enable auto Lens profile corrections (if it isn't already).

Switch to the Transform panel and Rotate. I did 3 degrees clockwise.

Select the Crop tool (C), and crop the maximum area possible.

Select Done, and wait for Bridge to regenerate the thumbnails.

Switch away from Bridge, and back to Bridge. Does the extractions message reappear?

In my case, there was a exact correleation between the number of repeat extractions and the number of landscape orientation images, 87.

It's likely that you may get different results, as the maths will be different for different camera sensor sizes and lens geometry, so you might need 2 or 3 attempts.

Report · Jun 26, 2013

It's likely that you may get different results, as the maths will be different for different camera sensor sizes and lens geometry, so you might need 2 or 3 attempts.

I never have noticed this problem until I repeated your test, and now I can confirm this result albeit it with different numbers.

First of all I always use DNG and never use ACR to crop my files, hence the combination of rotate/crop together with Lens correction may indeed play its role in this problem.

I tried 121 .CR2 files from my EOS 1Dx (18MP) with 79 landscape and 42 portrait. Every time I focussed on the content panel with this files always 31 of them started to regenerate.

Reopen in ACR and undo auto lens correction leeds to regenerate almost all thumbs and previews every time.

I will try and investigate a bit further when having the time

MacOSX 10.8.4 MacPro with more then enough resources, Bridge CC ACR 8.1

Report · Jun 26, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
From my experience with my friend, I am starting to believe it is something either within an individual's Bridge program or perhaps their computer. She is able to recreate the problem using raw images where I created the .xmp file. When she created her own .xmp files for 'virgin' raw images (mine, not hers) the problem did not happen. In other words, she now has a folder (with her own .xmp files for my images) where the problem does NOT occur and another (with my .xmp files for my images) where the problem DOES occur.
This is perhaps another piece for the puzzle.

What if any additional metadata did she apply to her processing of your 'virgin' raw images (IPTC? anything in addition to acr edit)? Seems like much of the discussion of multiple regens related to images with both acr edits and IPTC metadata (xmp or dng).

Report · Jun 26, 2013

I am not sure because her workflow is so different from mine and it took a while for me to explain how I work. She does all her metadata work in Photoshop on the final Tif files. I do all of mine in Bridge, along with corrections to the image using the raw palette. I know for the test, she did apply info using file/info in Bridge to my sample raw images, but did not use the metadata tab to do it as I do because she couldn't find the tab (she doesn't use it). She did apply some corrections to the image in raw. Whatever she did...those files did not regenerate.When she opened the folder with my metadata files, they did.

??????????

Until Adobe engineers actually jump on this, I doubt we'll ever solve the problem. And from my experience yesterday, I doubt that will happen. The first person I spoke with in India some days ago who was supposed to be a photoshop specialist didn't know what a metadata file is. The second, who called me yesterday at 6am, couldn't find any record of this problem EVER being reported. She told me to file a report on what I was led to believe is the official Adobe problem reporting site, which I did. I then discovered, through this forum (meaning this one, here, now), that the problem had not only been reported to the 'problem' forum, but acknowledged a year ago when an Adobe engineer said it was legitimate and would be worked on. Again, that was a year ago. This is beyond acceptable, truly. Meanwhile, I don't really know whether to even try CC at this point.

Has anyone else out there signed up for CC?

Report · Jun 26, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
.... Meanwhile, I don't really know whether to even try CC at this point.

Since you can readily create the multiple regen problem in Bridge CS6, it certainly would be informative for you to try CC and see whether or not problem is experienced there.

Report · Jun 26, 2013

Yes, I have decided to do this. Meanwhile, I have an email address that allegedly goes directly to the Adobe tech department. Below, I am posting a copy of what I said. I honestly believe, in light of the fact that Adobe has known about this for quite some time, that it is truly time for a lot of us to start complaining...loudly. Very loudly. Being polite, taking time for us to try and do their work without their resources has not worked.

Here is what I sent this morning. It includes a partial copy of the conversation on the offical adobe bug report forum from a year ago. I started by explaining I would detail the events of the past few days, then I did and that is what follows here.

1. I call Adobe's technical support and after an hour, finally am transferred to an 'alleged' Photoshop specialist. This person does not even know what a metadata file is.

2. At 6am yesterday, I get a return call from Adobe in India and when I explain about the thumbnail regeneration problem, I am told this is the first your department has EVER heard of it. I am told to post a report on the official adobe report forum, which I did:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/bridge_continuous_regeneration_extraction_bug?...

3. Then, through another forum, also supposedly connected officially to Adobe and visited by Adobe team members, I learn that the bug had been reported A YEAR AGO!!.

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/unneccesary_bridge_thumbnail_and_preview_extra...

To save you the trouble of actually accessing this file that the other person couldn't seem to find yesterday, here is the important part of that conversation:

Brett N (Official Rep) 1 year ago

The Bridge team has looked into it and they are able to reproduce. Bad news, the issue is legitimate. Good news, they can start working on a fix.

Comment

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Great stuff. I'm looking forward to the fix!

Me too!

The problem appears to have become worse since Camera Raw 7.3 was released, confirmed by "SG" an Adobe employee. It would be good if this problem could be finally given priority, and not treated as a new feature for CS7.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/49273...

One thing users have noticed is that it only tends to affect folders where XMP has been created. Remove the XMP and the problem goes away.

Any news, Brett?

Unfortunately, I cannot talk about future releases... But, this has been addressed by the engineering team.

Future releases?! You're kidding, right? This is a bug, and we're hoping for a fix for CURRENT software.

Everything is a future release: updates, new product versions, etc. I don't even know what the release plan is.

Okay. Fair enough. It's good to know that it's been addressed at least.
I thought you meant we were going to have to pay for a fix for a minute there. 😕

I had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday. I worked out that the repeat extractions (at least for up to ACR 7.2) were being set off by making crops which touch the edge of the image. You might do this after using transform tools and cropping to maximum area.
While Adobe decides if, when and who they might roll out a fix to (if one actually exists), I recommend adding space around maximal crops or removing non-essential crops from your images.

To sum all this up, I am now expected to spend more than twice what I used to spend for Photoshop if I sign up for the CC/cloud version of Photoshop. This works out to nearly $500 for two years vs the $200 I paid every other year for the boxed version. And I am expected to do this in light of the above fumbling on Adobe's part?

I am sorry but this is totally unacceptable. We're not talking quotes from a user forum here. We're talking Adobe's tech department and a bug report forum that they supposedly have access to yet couldn't find. Meanwhile, the conversations date back a year. And now we're told nobody can talk about 'future releases.' What happened to fixing this a year ago. Five months ago. Two months ago?

Report · Jun 26, 2013

it certainly would be informative for you to try CC and see whether or not problem is experienced there.

This thread seems getting to long, I already stated in post 477 that I could easily repeat the problem using the steps Yammer provided in post 476.

I use CC and ACR 8.1 (on a Mac)

Normal workflow is not showing this problem but I use DNG and I use lens correction every now and then but never rotate and crop in ACR. So if the problem is to find there you can easily test yourself if not using this steps in a new fresh folder (without hidden exported cache files and no previous written XMP files) does not regenerate thumbs.

Report · Jun 26, 2013

Hi Everyone,

I'm going to contact Brett and make sure we have all the right parties talking with each other.

Yammer case (ACR crop bounds set) is a different trigger than Yvette's, but they may point to the same underlying cause. The ACR team is lookng into Yammer's crop bounds and I'm going to make sure they are aware that Yvette's case may not be the same thing, but it would be good to investigate them at the same time.

BTW, I have tried Yvette's case using Bridge CC and ACR 8.1 and it still exists. With Yvette's files, I have not been able to trigger the status message issue on OSX, just on Win.

regards,

steve

Adobe Community

Thumbnails continually rebuilding