Samsung S24U ExpertRAW looks like 8bit jpg, ProMode dng completely broken

[Wurstkrapfen]

Is it Samsung or is it Adobe? This effect is not visible in the embedded preview. Also not a new issue, happend with S23U and S22U.

Original dng source: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/33kkhszxvkpul0wobqwfz/20240125_204051.dng?rlkey=an9u77f7wchzockal0n4f...

More Infos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNT9gds-oaA

Edit: Samung messed up even more. The ProMode classic RAW is completely broken, there is nothing there in the highlights and shadows to recover (it's on the same level as the jpg), while a 3rd party app can create a RAW file where it's possible (even Adobes De-Noise works on 3rd party dng files).

 

 

[Per Berntsen]

I've had a look at the DNG, and it looks terrible, with lots of jpg banding.

This is a linear DNG (not a raw file) with heavy jpg compression applied.

If there is an option to disable the compression, turn it off.

I'm not familiar with Samsung phones, but I found these posts about the issue:

https://us.community.samsung.com/t5/Galaxy-S24/Uncompressed-RAW-no-more/td-p/2789880

https://www.reddit.com/r/S24Ultra/comments/1ae3w07/s24u_expert_raw_is_now_using_jpeg_xl_compression/...

[Wurstkrapfen]

The compression is not the issue (at least not the one the user can control, it was possible to turn it off on S23u and S22u) the same effects happen without it.

The swtich to JPG XL is also not the issue, this happened before too.

The odd thing is that the preview image looks fine without the banding.

But I guess it's Samsung messing things up then. Maybe putting the wrong file in the dng container.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Do you have ACR 16.1.1, released recently, installed?

[Wurstkrapfen]

Yes but it's not a recent issue (just the latest example), I've seen this over the past 3 years. And it's also visible in LR Mobile (Android).

If you are telling me this file looks really as in the screen shot then it's entirly Samsungs mess, just want to exclude that Adobe is maybe decoding it wrong.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

The reason I asked is that support for the S24U is only in CR 16.1.1 at this point and not in any of the Lightroom Clients. 

[Wurstkrapfen]

Ah interesting, what about Photoshop does this access the newest ACR already? Then it makes no difference, because that Screenshot is actually from the Photoshop Import.

Also again, not a new issue, happend with the S22U, S23U over the last 3 years during diffrent versions (you supported the S23U pretty well).

Edit: I just checked Photoshop uses ACR 16.1.1 and shows the same image as Lightroom.

[cihaneken]

I have roughly analyzed your problem and my guess is that it might be a decoding incompatibility between Samsung and Adobe. 

It's no secret that DNG images from Samsung phones are not real raw files. They are only partial DNG files. 

Back to your topic, I opened the DNG file you shared in a different mobile software other than Adobe, I did not notice anything strange in the appearance. I made a small change and saved it as JPG. The result is that Adobe software does not support these files at the moment.

[Wurstkrapfen]

@Rikk Flohr: Photography 

There must be some channels of communications with Samsung to get to the bottom of this.
I think Samsung and Adobe worked closly togheter with the S23U and should have worked out such things. I think the S23u even came with LR preinstalled.

@cihaneken 
But did you really not just export the embedded preview? Look at the blue bar light on top. The preview has it all blue, the dng with a more realistic light shading.

[cihaneken]

You are right. Now I have tried again with a few different software and a few of them say that this file is corrupted and cannot be read. The first mobile software I tried only exported the preview image, as you guessed.

I have also received DNG samples from different people and it seems to affect all S24 Ultra models. Samsung seems to be the source of the problem.

[Wurstkrapfen]

And S23 Ultra, S22 Ultra basically anything that can run the so called "ExpertRAW" App.

[Per Berntsen]

The reason I asked is that support for the S24U is only in CR 16.1.1 at this point and not in any of the Lightroom Clients. 

By @Rikk Flohr: Photography

The DNG imported in LrC 13.1 without issues, and opened in ACR 16.1.

But it's not a raw file. (Mosaic data: No)

[Wurstkrapfen]

But there is a clean image somewhere in these files. If I edit on the phone I do not have the banding, if I view in in Windows Photo viewer it does not show the banding. Is it just the preview images that looks good? Did Samsung put the preveiw image in the place where the real one should be?

Does this make the App ExpertRAW a scam?

[Per Berntsen]

Yes, the embedded preview has no banding. If I import the file in LrC using the Embedded & Sidecar option under File handling > Build previews, the embedded preview is displayed in Library. But Develop has to work with, and create its preview from the actual file.

Windows Photos cannot display DNG files, so it displays the embedded preview.

Samsung is obviously the one to blame here.

[Wurstkrapfen]

Thanks for analyzing the file. Is there anything Adobe can do? Contact them about their mistake? Because costumer support does not care (or understand the issue) at all.

[Per Berntsen]

This kind of issue is probably way too advanced for customer support.

And I don't know if Adobe would consider contacting Samsung about it. Maybe @Rikk Flohr: Photography  can give you answer.

Irt might be possible to extract the previews from the DNG files.

This is unknown territory for me, so I can't help you any further.

https://www.google.com/search?q=extract+preview+from+dng&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Wurstkrapfen]

Yes it never got beyond "maybe reset your device" in over 3 years.

[Matthew35233524cser]

Hi, I recommend using MotionCam Pro v3 ( free will work too for photos and raw video )
It has RAW video ( yes raw video )  and new version v3 has raw with logs to hevc or prores and good photo mode with burst for stacking.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.motioncam&pcampaignid=web_share
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.motioncam.pro&pcampaignid=web_share
Best settings for photos

[Wurstkrapfen]

It's about to get Samsung to fix their stuff.

Also using alternative camera app on Android makes not much sense since they don't have full access to all hardware features. And you can't quickly access it on a locked device. There is no substitue for a correctly working stock camera app.

[Matthew35233524cser]

Okay I understand but you should try it before making assumptions as simple example is that Samsung and Google are using MotionCam for there Promo videos not Google Camera or Expert RAW or Samsung Camera app.
https://twitter.com/MishaalRahman/status/1753205544205090886

Also note MotionCam is using Raw streams ( RAW10, RAW12, RAW14 and RAW_SENSOR ) and it has full acesses to all stuff that Samsung allows for third party apps.

[Wurstkrapfen]

Not an assumption, or are you telling me it supports 50MP dng on the 1x and 5x?

Also this app looks abandoned, last update in the end of 2022 and just crahsing on the S24Us main cam.

[Matthew35233524cser]

I dont know details but you can join discord and it has sub section for all majoy devices including Samsung. If you or anyone is looking for video quality or photo to post processed with raws. MotionCam is your best bet for not backed raws

[Wurstkrapfen]

Well the one from your first link was the one not updated since 2022, I don't see beta versions.

But it does not matter, I bought this phone for it's two 50MP cameras, since 3rd party apps can't use them it's useless for me.

And it's offtopic.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography · Accepted solution]

Thank you for the sample file. We've forwarded this to the manufacturer for disposition. 

[Wurstkrapfen]

Thank you very much for helping to get this issue noticed. Please leave a note if you get any useful reply.