[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[W_J_T]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

Well, since I can ensure the information gets back to the right people, I was hoping that, as a group, we could come up with specific suggestions for compromises that would be acceptable for everyone concerned, instead of just repeating the same complaints over and over again. But you've made it quite clear I'm wasting my time, so I'll leave you to it. I hope you get a result that suits you.

? I never stated nor indicated that you're wasting your time or that I do not wish for you to present or be involved, everyones voice matters, as you know. I thusly don't understand your response in context to a single portion and as such feel it was unwarranted to take such a tone towards me when I in no way portrayed things that way towards you personally. If for your own reasons you felt that way then I am sorry.

Given the points I quoted from you yourself above I was simply wondering what your role in all this actually was. If you do in fact have the direct ability and direct channels to provide information and suggestions to Adobe then that's certainly beneficial (however this was previously undisclosed to my knowledge based upon your own statements I quoted) if it would aid in yielding some positive outcome.

This really needs to be however an official dialogue opened by Adobe themselves and made aware to the broadest scope of existing perpetual and creative cloud customers available if Adobe is in fact serious about the matter. This single thread or a few across the forums can not be considered the voice, litmus test or sampling pool of the masses of outraged and or concerned existing or potential customers here at the forums or the broader sense at large across the globe and their customer base. The outcry is so diverse and wide spread that Adobe needs to cultivate a true discussion in one unified place for its customers to have a proper dialogue with Adobe and for Adobe to actively take part in a real discussion that can in turn yield viable results that actually include tangible and real choices for consumers, in my humble opinion.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

W_J_T wrote:

feel it was unwarranted to take such a tone towards me when I in no way portrayed things that way towards you personally.

I apologise if my comments had a tone to them. It wasn't intentional.

I only ever wanted to help your voices be heard in the right places. Good night.

[W_J_T]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

I only ever wanted to help your voices be heard in the right places. Good night.

What are your thoughts on this approach then...

W_J_T wrote:

This really needs to be however an official dialogue opened by Adobe themselves and made aware to the broadest scope of existing perpetual and creative cloud customers available if Adobe is in fact serious about the matter. This single thread or a few across the forums can not be considered the voice, litmus test or sampling pool of the masses of outraged and or concerned existing or potential customers here at the forums or the broader sense at large across the globe and their customer base. The outcry is so diverse and wide spread that Adobe needs to cultivate a true discussion in one unified place for its customers to have a proper dialogue with Adobe and for Adobe to actively take part in a real discussion that can in turn yield viable results that actually include tangible and real choices for consumers, in my humble opinion.

Wouldn't this be a more effective method of handling this matter by Adobe.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

W_J_T wrote:

This really needs to be however an official dialogue opened by Adobe themselves

That would be great, but because everyone's (understandably) so angry, it would just become yet another opportunity to express that anger instead of an opportunity to find a way forward. They started trying to have an almost-official dialogue on John Nack's blog, which turned into people wishing his family dead and suchlike.

I was, perhaps naively, hoping that we might be able to have a sensible conversation among ourselves, and get constructive feedback from a large number on this forum, which at least represents a small cross-section of those affected. I'll be surprised if Adobe they go back to the old system, so it was simply an opportunity for users to have a part in alternative solutions, hopefully on more neutral ground. I will admit I'm slightly wishing I hadn't bothered!

[Guest]

Victoria I see you wrote a book for Adobe. So for lets just say you work for them. but what do you use lightroom. big deal that is still sold.

What you fail to see is we spent money $$$$ to own a software and that allowed us to upgrade. We spent that money so we would be doing the right thing. So we could upgrade for the rest of our life. We could have bought lenses, or some stock a new car whatever. We bought the hardware to match the software. we bought plug ins etc. Now Adobe wants more money and says No we will cut you off amd you wonder why we are pissed.

look for some things there is no compromise. this is no the playground! You are on this thread as though you are going to calm us down etc talk peace, compromise. Dont be stupid Adobe has already done that. There is no compromnise Adobe public says it is sorry. it offers a discount to all of us who have had to waste out time with this and gives us our upgrade. If Adobe wants to offer the CC to people who cannot buy in i get it. But to force us to do so Is Not going to happen. Anything short of that and I am pushing hard to see Adobe disolve and be reaplaced. I belive others are in the same boat as me.

Now I am going to go and short the stock and profit off Adobes grave errror.

PS dont confuse a comitment for anger. yes I got Angry with Adobe at NAB. i came home called them twwice posted on the cow and talked to NIpta and a csr. i am not angry now. i am comnited to seeing Adobe turn around or fail! So if you think i or anyone will give in change our minds think again. We will see but Q2 or Q3 waht happens. but if they cannot get 1mil subs and promised 2 mil well see ya Stock will tank,

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

001andrew wrote:

Victoria I see you wrote a book for Adobe. So for lets just say you work for them. but what do you use lightroom. big deal that is still sold.

Yes, I earn my living helping photographers, and that includes writing about Adobe software - and I'm not afraid to write about workarounds for bugs and deficiencies. Although this issue doesn't directly affect Lightroom, it does affect the photographers I support, so it's important to me.

I'm not here defending Adobe or trying to convince you they're right. Both parties can dig their heels in to their heart's content, and someone will win and someone will lose. I don't want to see users lose. If there's a possible middle ground here, it's better for everyone if we can find it.

[Guest]

There is not a middle ground I tried that and got as rude a response as you can get. No they have said that there is notheing but the cloud and your past purchase is meaning less. Screw em  if I had the time I would take legal action. They are clearly in breech there is no compromise!!!!!!

WE WILL  NOT JOIN THE CLOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

One thing I forgot vic

Is that Adobe cannot be trusted now. They have built up a base of users over 25 years and spent time and money at user groups schools etc. They broke the trust the agreement not us. Why wwould we compromise.

if your Boyfrind, hubby, wife were to cheat on you it would forever change things. you may still use them but trust ?

think about it ? What Adobe had was golden they had us reapeat costomers. now they have us hating them and. You ask what would be a fair price how insensative really. Like I said a huge apology and a free upgrade to cs7 is a start.

[Andy_Bay]

I was, perhaps naively, hoping that we might be able to have a sensible conversation among ourselves, and get constructive feedback from a large number on this forum, which at least represents a small cross-section of those affected.

Victoria, what is the sensible approach when someone is taking you hostage? Pay up and encourage that behavior?

The government doesn't negotiate with terrorists. I think no one should. The only thing many of us will accept from Adobe is a serious apology and a full reversal of their extortive strategy.

If the cloud is so great, why not let people choose it freely? We all know the answer to that question, don't we...

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

Andy Bay wrote:

The only thing many of us will accept from Adobe is a serious apology and a full reversal of their extortive strategy.

I understand where you're coming from - none of us like to feel like we have no choice.

So what's your plan if they decide not to do that?

[Guest]

Vicy you are such a fisherman. Are you serious we will upgrade as the neen arises in out life. you and Adobe dont ge that info. If i have a need to upgrade the software has what i need i upgrade.

Whats your plan LOL

The only reason you are here is to get some info. You are on a fact finding mission. Wow you think we are stupid?

[Guest]

well said Andy

[Andy_Bay]

So what's your plan if they decide not to do that?

Well luckily (and only because I have perpetual licenses) I do have the following option:

-Keep using CS6 while actively looking for alternatives. It's not like there is something in CC that I would absolutely need to do my work. Most of the things I'm doing I could do even with CS3. We should not be too focused on the tools. People with vision can accomplish great things without any need for the latest bells and whistles.

Note how I would not have any way of protesting if I signed up for the CC if I disagreed with what Adobe does in the future. That's what makes the CC decision so important. If I drink the cool aid I lock myself to a company which now has a record of abusing it's customers. It's like marrying someone who keeps beating you up. Not a good decision. If I refuse, then I will keep my freedom and tell the abuser that what it's doing is not ok.

[W_J_T]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

That would be great, but because everyone's (understandably) so angry, it would just become yet another opportunity to express that anger instead of an opportunity to find a way forward. They started trying to have an almost-official dialogue on John Nack's blog, which turned into people wishing his family dead and suchlike.

I think most understand that due to the definitive nature of Adobe's decision that people are some what angry, in many cases rightly so and accurately justified. So yes, by opening up a dialogue it could bring further anger or hostilities as well as displayed ignorance and utter stupidity by some as sad as that may be, none of which do I condone or think is ultimately beneficial. I have yes read many of the posts on John's blog on the related topic matter and the hundreds if not thousands of responses collectively across various posts. However, "almost-official" a blog post? A blog post that most people will never see, should not be considered even "almost" official.

Adobe has failed to officially acknowledge the matter and by doing so also has allowed it to continue to thrive and grow in stature. Because of the absence of a unified response by Adobe, the fragmentation of discussion is continuing to manifest itself. You said people are "just repeating the same complaints over and over again" true but people feel their voices are going unheard and just plain don't matter, in addition as individuals people will express the same sentiments in different ways but with similar intentions, I'm talking about poignant discussion not frivolous chatter. So of course people are saying the same thing over and over we are not being heard. As far as "how" things are being voiced by customers, Adobe must now ascertain peoples dialogue (which seems rather clear) since we were not given a voice before Adobe made their "Creative Cloud Only" decision. So by default they must themselves now decipher the voices within the backlash brought about by Adobe's own doing, they could have however by contrast involved us initially under a less emotional atmosphere about their intentions and received feedback but they choose not to.

By the same account for over a year all we have heard (truly "over and over") from Adobe is "We are listening", but no response other than continued justification and defense of the Creative Cloud and basically a "this is what we have chosen, this is the direction we are going" approach and "this alone is now your option" with the absence of any real viable choice. In the purist sense this "absolute silence" to consumers concerns approach by Adobe is irresponsible to the customer base, when collectively many have justifiable concerns not being even remotely acknowledged by Adobe.

Adobe's "We are listening" approach actually reminds me of this (ya, ya, la, la, la, la, la, la)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUF6EF-WgvU

So ok then if an official dialogue (online town hall meeting) is not desired by Adobe (I am sure partly or mostly to avoid more official negative PR and to avoid exacerbation of the mess they have made for themselves), then what about an actual response, a detailed survey, some type of actual official feedback to customers? I as many others feel that Adobe has rode the "We are listening" approach on the matter long enough. Adobe what say ye?

Victoria Bampton wrote:

I'll be surprised if Adobe they go back to the old system

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2013/05/apples-oranges-creative-cloud-my-thoughts-on-cc.html

mike chambers (Adobe Employee) — 5:21 PM on May 19, 2013

"I know some people won’t be happy unless we completely reverse our direction, but frankly, that is not going to happen."

Mike Chambers (Adobe Employee) — 12:06 PM on May 19, 2013

"I am saying we are exploring solutions to concerns within the framework of the new direction we are taking (Creative Cloud, service model)."

So I guess that can be considered "almost" official then.

[Andy_Bay]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

I'll be surprised if Adobe they go back to the old system

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2013/05/apples-oranges-creative-cloud-my- thoughts-on-cc.html

mike chambers (Adobe Employee) — 5:21 PM on May 19, 2013

"I know some people won’t be happy unless we completely reverse our direction, but frankly, that is not going to happen."

Mike Chambers (Adobe Employee) — 12:06 PM on May 19, 2013

"I am saying we are exploring solutions to concerns within the framework of the new direction we are taking (Creative Cloud, service model)."

So I guess that can be considered "almost" official then.

It's a bluff. When someone takes you hostage, of course they will tell you that they wont budge until their terms are met. 

If the stock price sinks (which it's doing) they will have to eventually reverse their decision. If it sinks low enough and Adobe stays stubborn, someone like Google might just buy them cheaply and kick out the current executives. That's why the right thing to do for anyone not happy with Adobes policy is refusing to spend another dime in any Adobe products. Just use your old tools, you can do great things with them!

[W_J_T]

Andy Bay wrote:

People with vision can accomplish great things without any need for the latest bells and whistles.

Very true.

[Jongware]

Andy Bay wrote:

Victoria Bampton wrote:

I'll be surprised if Adobe they go back to the old system

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2013/05/apples-oranges-creative-cloud-my- thoughts-on-cc.html

mike chambers (Adobe Employee) — 5:21 PM on May 19, 2013

"I know some people won’t be happy unless we completely reverse our direction, but frankly, that is not going to happen."

Mike Chambers (Adobe Employee) — 12:06 PM on May 19, 2013

"I am saying we are exploring solutions to concerns within the framework of the new direction we are taking (Creative Cloud, service model)."

So I guess that can be considered "almost" official then.

It's a bluff. When someone takes you hostage, of course they will tell you that they wont budge until their terms are met. 

If the stock price sinks (which it's doing) they will have to eventually reverse their decision.

So there you have the justification for my Classic avatar.

(It was inspired on a documentary I saw about the 80s, in which the Tale was Told about a well-known and respectable beverages commercant who attempted to create a "new and improved" flavour. After dramatic sales droppings, they relented to consumers pressure: http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-new-coke)

[Cocovanna]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

So what's your plan if they decide not to do that?

I have CS PP 5.5 -- I intended to upgrade to CS7. Now I'll keep 5.5 until I find a better (non-leased) product

[FastFeet]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

So what's your plan if they decide not to do that?

We will stick with our two CS6 Master Collection licenses in the short term, while we will explore different products. For Web development I will switch over completely to Visual Studio and other software. For video editing we will probably go for Avid or Edius, both two great professional programs. The buggiest Adobe product, Encore, sucks anyway and still doesn't support the full DVD spec. According to Adobe emloyees it won't be improved anymore, too. The hardest piece of Adobe software to substitute will be Photoshop, but even with PS CS6 you can do pretty much all you need to do. If Adobe doesn't come to his senses, plus the lost trust, it will make it worthwhile for other companies to develop again and I'm sure we will see more competition soon. So there will be more choice in the near future.

For years I have upgraded always on day one to the newest versions. I was looking forward for CS7. The worst that happened now is that I don't enjoy working with my actuall CS6 versions anymore. Every stupid thing that hasn't been fixed for years annoys me 100 times more than before. All the keyboard shortuts that do the opposite in another Adobe product and have never been streamlined just fuel my anger abouut Adobe. In Photohop you cancel with ESC, in InDesign you confirm with ESC. How stupid is that? In one you use SHIFT in the other CTRL and so on. I just got used to it, to do the job. Now I'm realizing it again and it annoys me big.

[Andy_Bay]

If Adobe doesn't come to his senses, plus the lost trust, it will make it worthwhile for other companies to develop again and I'm sure we will see more competition soon. So there will be more choice in the near future.

I agree with this.

The strangest part is the total lack of response from Adobe so far. They seem to think they can "wait it out" and consider their options without any hurry... I don't think so. Adobe as a company is in freefall at the moment and every day that passes by will cost them dearly. They are keeping the gates wide open for the competition. Old customers everywhere are exploring and finding other options and the mindset towards Adobe is changing from positive to deeply negative. Every day that passes alienates the old customers more. I have never witnessed such an uniform mass outrage towards any company before in my whole life. I guess the management is in total denial at the moment. Someome should tell them the emperor has no clothes.

[Jongware]

[Jongware] wrote:

So there you have the justification for my Classic avatar.

After reading this, it didn't take them too long to remove my great new avatar ... At least *some* Adobe employees are paying attention to what's going on here.

Pity it's about the wrong things.

[Jeff_Know1]

Pauls Sloss wrote:

I don't think a baked opt-out, "hire-purchase" system is a technical hurdle for Adobe. (I personally would be happy with this as an option.)

Alright. Maybe I was over thinking it.

Andy Bay wrote:

mike chambers (Adobe Employee) — 5:21 PM on May 19, 2013
"I know some people won’t be happy unless we completely reverse our direction, but frankly, that is not going to happen."

It's a bluff. When someone takes you hostage, of course they will tell you that they wont budge until their terms are met.  If the stock price sinks (which it's doing) they will have to eventually reverse their decision. 

Adobe has anticipated falling stock prices and it will fall a lot lower than this, and Adobe would still not be worried about it. It is going to take a year of failing to meet their Cloud user base expectations before Adobe will begin to reconsider. Adobe is pushing us around. We need to push back. A lot of people are being suckered into the Cloud at the moment with 'temporary' special offers. That doesn't create brand loyalty; it creates a feeling of being scammed into something.

Convince people that the 'benefits' of the cloud are nothing compared to the dangers of being chained to Adobe forever.

Windows 8 is still not doing well. And Microsoft is coming out out with 8.1 to meet at least some consumer problems with Windows 8. If people would just buy it and go along with it... Microsoft would not have bothered to do anything. But what Adobe wants us to go along with is so much worse.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

I've never been called a fisherman before!

Andy said that the only thing he'll accept from Adobe is an apology and full reversal. You've said much the same, Andrew. I don't even know what software you use so I don't know whether there's other software available that could take Adobe's place. I assume not, since Andy mentioned he felt like he was being held hostage.

You seem to think I have some ulterior motive, but I really don't!

[Bishtjit]

it is true that Adobe has started selling its wonderful products through creative cloud, which has several benefits over the tradational prepetual license.  However, Adobe has not stopped prepetual.  Customers has both the options available through adobe.com.  Adobe prepetual CS6 is still available to purchase online and I beleive will be there for a long time.

In addition, customers can purchase Creative Suite 6 perpetual software applications via traditional volume license programs as well.  For people who were using volume licensing, cloud services are available through Creative Cloud Team membership,which is real and effective way of managing a team.

I beleive everyone should switch to creative cloud instead of prepetual to avail the wonderful beneifts : like cloud storage and product upgrade security.

[rosequill]

Wow, can bishtjitender be more of a corporate plant?

This is disgusting beyond measure.