[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Guest]

Like I said earlier Kevin, just because Adobe can doesn't mean they should. We as users will be the ultimate direction and future for Adobe and we the angry users upset and stepped on by this direction; it remains up to us to make change for the positive. If Adobe feeds us a negative hand as they are doing, then it is up to us to correct it. By standing strong and tall and not drinking the "kool-aid" will prove our point over time.

Like I've told others who are defending this "in the moment" decision, come back in 10-15 or even 20 years from now and let us know how it's working out for you. Granted Adobe and their cloud haven't evaporated by then.

[Brntoki]

woknow@comcast.net wrote:

Owner? So you can reverse engineer, copy, share, etc....?

Equivocate much? No one has either thought or suggested anything remotely near to the idea that they owned the code. Stop already.

woknow@comcast.net wrote:

As for the "wasting time" comment, Adobe has had their meetings, decided to go forward with the subscription model and are invested in it, so all the time complaining here is not likely to alter their direction. Wouldn't it be better to go use other software or hire some coders to write your own, rather than lobbying a major corporation who has chosen a major course change?

I like  Adobe software, it does what I need (and much, much more) I am willing to pay the way they are going to charge, and get back to creating.

So, you have time to complete major projects that pay for your subscription over many years, AND have time to post in the forums? Perhaps others have time to do their dayjobs, while searching for and learning new software, AND have time to post in the forums, too. Could be.

woknow@comcast.net wrote:

It is, what it is....

Yes, and what it is is steamy and smelly.

[Jao vdL]

You say it's paying for services - Adobe provides tools. I don't rent

tools. I don't subscribe to software.

There is only one case in which I would pay for renting tools. This is for

a short running project that has BIG requirements that I don't expect to

have to use all year. A shovel you buy, a digging cat that you need to

build a new retaining wall you rent. In case it wasn't obvious, the

lawnmower is Photoshop and some of the other creative suite tools.

Something like premiere might be the digger since I don't do video very

often. The rental model is crazy for tools that you need every day and

quite unprecedented and tellingly nobody else in creative software is doing

this. Adobe is really far out on a limb here and you can tell from all the

reactions. The Dave Girard, ars technica article linked above is a clear

example of this.

Stepping back, it is fairly obvious what is going on here. Adobe wants to

be leading in a social revolution for creative design. This is the why for

the cloud storage and collaboration tools that are part of CC. They know

very well that they are very very late to the social game overall and they

think that in the future they risk becoming irrelevant if they don't move

into it full force now. So, since by themselves CC didn't really suck in

many people, they are trying to tie it in with their established entrenched

tools and make it so that in order to get the tool that everyone needs you

have to get the cloud stuff too. They hope by default we will all get

sucked into that social "revolution" and that they become the next social

provider but for creatives. This is a long game. None of the other

arguments about simpler finances or easier software maintenance for Adobe

make much sense. On the other hand however, it is surprising to me that (as

simple arithmetic will tell you) they chose to make the cost more expensive

than the design suites upgrades that probably most people were buying. They

must really believe the social/collaboration tools are a great value and

that they just need to expose people to them for them to get the gospel.

Quite surprising and not the strategy I would follow as I would think you

would need to price it the same or slightly below the previous cost

especially since the social tools are quite unfinished. For now I don't see

anything but a more expensive dropbox which is not worth it.

All quite unfortunate.

[bababongatwo]

One of the best summarys I read about CashCow "social" licensing.

1+

[Guest]

+1 for Xara too. Just saw this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57593433-92/dislike-adobe-subscriptions-xara-updates-its-design-sui...

Anyone willing to start a bet pool as to when the cloud will ultimately fail? Adobe employees should start looking for alternatives themselves or ride it out until the cloud evaporates and all falls.

[FrannieKN]

Just talked to a state-wide publisher about CC. My contact said that their CS3 quit working in January (it's not clear why), and when they called Adobe about it, they were told that their only option was to subscribe. They got a rate of $35 per month, and they did not understand that the software will not exist once they stop paying for the subscription. They were also lied to about the availability of perpetual licenses, and they didn't understand that $35/mo is an intro rate.

It'll probably work out OK for them since they've figured out how to hack it and use it on other computers, so they're paying for only one license now. (Said with a sarcastic tone!)

I am NOT advocating cheating the system! I was a programmer once-upon-a-time, and I value what it costs to develop applications like these, and I will pay for the right to use it... but I will never pay to rent it. I am just illustrating one company's solution after being led to believe that they had to subscribe. I'm wondering if Adobe's board understands that their employees have been misleading customers, seemingly to boost the appearance of the success of CC.

I'm really liking what I see in Xara, and I'm enjoying noting their italicized comments about perpetual licenses and upgrading from any version! I had to google to find the Adobe discount, but I did find it. $200 will buy a perpetual license for everything I need. The only reason not to buy would be if Adobe would sell perpetual licenses again.

[Guest]

It seems like the new model over at Adobe is to cheat customers and lie to us. I happened to just talk to someone today who was apparently blocked out by something Adobe related and when he went to inquire with their chat support, they told him he has to pay $100 to have it corrected. WTF?! So we're being blocked out and held ransom by software we have already paid for now so that Adobe can keep stealing from us? Hell no! Not to be trusted for a minute more.

[Guest]

I am anti cloud and it's not a money thing....

For many the cloud works and I certainely appreciate  why it does work for them... however it is not a model that works for me.. last year we had a choice rent or own... there was no uproar on the forums as we had a choice... if we took away the rental model and forced everyone to purchase I am sure there would be a lot of annoyed users...

Why I must own

Many features of the cloud dont work for me..I dont need the master collection... I wouldnt pay for everydish in a restaurant and I really dont need every app

for some of my clients I cannot legally place files on a server I do not own or control..

I like to keep my workstation in a sterile enviroment so the thought of having it constantly checking for updates and license checks worries me.....

Currently if my machine goes down I can install the software on another and be up and running relitvely quickly... Looking around the forums you see the nightmare that can happen with the cloud... I have seen one post by a frustrated user were a machine has been down for two months... this is not acceptable..

When the cloud gets hacked or goes down it will be painfull.... adobe will not be liable in such a circumstance but we the users still have to pay staff and could lose business from such an incident

The prism scandal now means users files could be up for grabs by any govt agency who wishes it...

Adobe will be introducing an automatic filtering of files to ensure no copyright infringement... this means If I take a picture in times square and happen to get a coca cola logo in the BG... my account could automatically be suspended... I havent broken the law but the robot in charge doesnt know this..

I particularly do not like the fact that once you stop subscribing you lose access to files... this gun to the head system is a reversal of motivation.... previously adobe had to keep us impressed so we kept buying their software... now that dont have to because if you stop subscribing poof goes those files.... this is not the Adobe I knew a few years ago... a company that cared about users and listened to them....

remember if adobe can force this on us then in 10 years all software will be rental only... emails wont work... printers wont print...scary

so as I mentioned at the begining .. it is not just a money thing

[Guest]

That is correct, it's not just about the money. It's definitely about much more: choice, ownership of our work, creative freedom, trust and ...the list goes on and on and on... Chazinbermuda your mentions are well said and what you say seems to echo a bit of this thread found here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1212063

[SplineTimeLine]

The math. I do use the Master Collection. I upgraded approx. every 18 months, or slightly less, last upgrade offer was 1100, in three years=2,200. I generally had to buy a plugin or two to get around an issue that came up in the update 200-500, call it 2,500 versus 1799.64. I actually do value the additional "social" stuff, the typekit (I have spent between 200 and 4,500 per year for fonts over the years), etc....

As for the "time to post in the forums" snotty little comment. I don't hang around the forums, because I in fact don't have that much time. This thread showed up when I checked the forums today, and since I had almost the exact same thought last year it caught my eye.

Finally, by wasting your time, I meant: Adobe is a successful company, they have been around a while, yes they do want to make a profit, they know more about their customers (including all the moaning in these forums) than we ever will and they have initiated this plan, a huge change in company direction which is both expensive in infrastructure investment and PR damage. So do you really think the amount of activism being shown is going to sway them? Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe. You'll get more ROI.

[Andy_Bay]

The math. I do use the Master Collection. I upgraded approx. every 18 months, or slightly less, last upgrade offer was 1100, in three years=2,200.

Oh really, because there was 24 months between CS5 and CS6. And if you upgraded to CS5.5 in between, then the upgrade offer was much lower than 1100 to CS6.

With that 2 year release cycle the price is easy to calculate. 1100 for two years is 550 for one year. With those plain numbers It's pretty hard to see the 1/3 CC price you were boasting about earlier, isn't it?

I generally had to buy a plugin or two to get around an issue that came up in the update 200-500, call it 2,500 versus 1799.64.

You can't be serious. As if buying plugins was a thing for only the CS versions! Please explain what your plugin comment has to do with the CC pricing! I'm all ears!

I don't hang around the forums, because I in fact don't have that much time.

You seem to hang around here enought to make self-righteous comments about other peoples time usage. Explain this: how do you know some people write here often, if you in fact didn't arrive to that conclusion by reading the posts of those people (thus yourself spending more time here than you're willing to admit)? I really don't care what other people do with their time so feel free to participate as much or as little as you wish. Just don't post judgmental comments about what people do with their time. It's not your business really, is it?

Adobe is a successful company, they have been around a while, yes they do want to make a profit, they know more about their customers (including all the moaning in these forums) than we ever will and they have initiated this plan, a huge change in company direction which is both expensive in infrastructure investment and PR damage. So do you really think the amount of activism being shown is going to sway them?

Big companies make mistakes all the time and become little companies in the process. Some big companies are smart enough to backtrack when the most important aspect of their business (=customers) gets outraged. Microsoft has recently done that with Windows 8.1 and Xbox One. Netflix did it earlier.

Maybe the activism shown here doesn't influence Adobe. But debunking false claims about cheaper prices and other false rhetoric will show ordinary customers the truth about this move. They will not spend their dollars and they know they are not alone in this. We stand together to oppose Adobe Cash Cow and money is the language even Adobe will have to listen to.

Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe.

Already doing that, so don't make those assumptions. Looking forward to meeting Harm Millaard on the Edius forums. In the meanwhile I will also participate here, just for fun and out of spite, and happily debunk the false claims cloudies are trying to pass. To quote a book title:

Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000

[TheCoroner9]

Andy Bay wrote:

Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe.

Already doing that, so don't make those assumptions. Looking forward to meeting Harm Millaard on the Edius forums. In the meanwhile I will also participate here, just for fun and out of spite, and happily debunk the false claims cloudies are trying to pass. To quote a book title:

Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000

Harm isn't the only one heading to Edius. A lot of people are.

[bababongatwo]

> Andy Bay

Absolutely agree

All these "wrong math makers" (And they all take the Master Collection as base of math, which was not selled very often and is the worst case scenario - and also not cheaper).

Adobe itself don´t arguments with "cheaper".

(Entry level is not as high - which can be translated "fixing on")

[TheCoroner9]

woknow@comcast.net wrote:

caught my eye.

Finally, by wasting your time, I meant: Adobe is a successful company, they have been around a while, yes they do want to make a profit, they know more about their customers (including all the moaning in these forums) than we ever will and they have initiated this plan, a huge change in company direction which is both expensive in infrastructure investment and PR damage. So do you really think the amount of activism being shown is going to sway them? Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe. You'll get more ROI.

It's obvious they don't know more about their customers otherwise they never would have came up with the CC subscription in the first place.

The amount of the subscription doesn't matter at all. We don't want subscription based software - Period.

As someone who paid Adobe $ through the years, myself and others will complain as much as possible.

Adobe has no clue as to how ticked off their customer base is. It's far worse than even they think it is.

Don't worry - many of us have moved on and spent our $ for non subscription software. It feels great.

You're right on one point , I am getting more ROI with no monthly subscription fees. lol

[Snakedogman]

You only have to look at Microsoft (a MUCH bigger company than Adobe) and their recent XBOX One unveiling and subsequent attemtps at damage control to see that even big companies can sometimes get it wrong, and can definitely be swayed by (potential) custumer activism.

[vagrantsea07]

I have been using Adobe products for a long time including the recent CS6 Production Premium.  If Adobe takes away my choices on purchasing and upgrading software and forces me into CC, I will abandon Adobe and move over to Avid Media Composer.

Adobe, you will upset your client base just like Apple did with Final Cut Pro X and lose a lot of customers.  You should reconsider.

[Kwan Parker]

Isn't it obvious?  Every customer complaint which might be made has been made.

Decision makers at Adobe don't care.  They've created a market where customers are potential slaves.

Unless subsriptions to the life servitude model falls short of profit expectations, Adobe isn't going to budge.

Does anybody believe Adobe puts their customers first?

If you do . . . tell me another lie.

Once upon a time . . . I believed.  Not anymore.

[M_G6]

Adobe - the Great Dream Crusher. First they killed FreeHand, clearly the best vector draw program then available. Now, we are force fed the Creative Cloud. And with it, they deliver the final death blow to the careers of millions of users who are not filthy rich and cannot afford another crushing financial monthly burden.

As a Photoshop user since 1990, I never would have imagined it would have come to this. Creative software companies used to be, generally speaking, the "cool" crowd. Adobe has now become the Evil Empire. We are being forced to pay into perpetuity if we ever want to open another one of our documents again. A monopoly. No, monopoly is too kind a word. More like a stranglehold.

I don't buy the idea that this is the only way for Adobe to survive as a company. And for them to weed out the low-income users (like me!), the students, the up-and-coming Adobe product users in favor of catering exclusively to the big studios and design houses with the subscription purchasing power is incredibly shortsighted of Adobe. Better to get their product into as many hands as possible and get the masses hooked.

As a graphic artist who knows Adobe is the only toolset in town, I don't see much of a future in my current career if I no longer have access to my toolset. I don't drive a Ferrari because I can't afford one. And so the same goes for my software. Very sad. Thanks, Adobe, you suck. Didn’t used to, but now you do. Big time.

[FrannieKN]

Touché.

Adobe used to be a great company, working to earn our loyalty. Once upon a time, they had a free magazine. Reading it helped you learn the software, which in turn made me dependent on it. That's OK, and it was a good business move on Adobe's part. But, it seemed like someone took at look at how "dependent" or loyal we'd become and thought they could capitalize on that and force our position to save their company.

I'm not going to let Adobe destroy my business though. There are previous posts here mentioning competitive software, and someone mentioned an on-going discussion about the alternatives. So, M_G6, don't let Adobe have the satisfaction of driving one of us "sole proprietors" out of business. Dive in there by picking up someone else's design suite and show Adobe that they are not as invincible as they think they are. I know they'll eventually realize their losses as we leave Adobe for non-subscription software; I'm just sad because I don't think there will be any turning back by then to recover past customers. The trust is gone, and so is my loyalty.

And, once I get over the learning curve of new applications, does Adobe really think I'd be willing to return to them? Well, maybe they do think I'd welcome them back. After all, they thought I wouldn't blink an eye at having my business run on software that, if "turned off", would lock me out of my livelihood.

[jbjones]

FrannieKN wrote:

...

But, it seemed like someone took at look at how "dependent" or loyal we'd become and thought they could capitalize on that and force our position to save their company.

...

That brings up an interesting question. If a company has to resort to strong arming to stay afloat, do you really want to stake your own company's future on on their products?

[wms1]

I see that Adobe is planning on giving a 1 year subscription to everyone

who goes to Photoshop world as a gift. Seems like they want sone god press.

[TheCoroner9]

wms1 wrote:

I see that Adobe is planning on giving a 1 year subscription to everyone

who goes to Photoshop world as a gift. Seems like they want sone god press.

Some wouldn't consider that a gift but punishment.

[wms1]

But it does show something.....

[lasvideo]

It shows they want statistics to demonstrate lots of new CC subscribers (not mentioning they are not paying). AND its shows they want to "hook" people on the softeware. Remember, once you do projects during your "free" year, you MUST eternally keep paying your rent or you lose access to those projects and lose the ability to continue editing. Its actually kind of devious, but it serves their greater stated purspose.

[Brntoki]

Well, in my rage at Adobe I had forgotten that I did in fact have a file "hanging in the balance". I was considering using ID off and on under the old system of offering both perpetual and monthly licenses and created a fairly important file with the demo version. Since I planned to use it from time to time I didn't think much of editing the text within ID, though most of it was pasted in from a text file.

A couple of days ago I had to print the file, but the PDF I output wouldn't print properly through Reader. Now I've got to jump through hoops to print it, crappily, from Reader, until I can redo the job in Scribus. No way in hell I'm giving Adobe a dime though, that's for sure.