Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer?

[-Michele]

From Wappler's crowdfund page:

Are you the Dreamweaver killer?

Absolutely. Adobe Dreamweaver is turning more and more into a tool for hardcore coders and loosing its well-known visual abilities. It's also a truth that Dreamweaver's development has being way behind the latest web or mobile app developments. Wappler is going further - where Dreamweaver hasn't gone before!

What you think about Wappler (seeing it in action on videos advertising)?

Is it time for Adobe to wake up?

Do you think Adobe should include in the next versions of Dreamweaver new dynamic behaviours for web and/or mobile applications?

Last but not least... should Adobe buy Wappler and include it as a new app in the CC subscription?

[DMXzone.com]

Well even Joseph Lowery - "The Dreamweaver father" - agrees with us. That is what Michele is referring to:

Wappler Intro from the The Dreamweaver Guru Joseph Lowery - YouTube

and the IndieGoGo crowdfunding campaign speaks for itself:

Wappler - World's Top Visual Web App Creator! | Indiegogo

[BenPleysier]

DMXzone.com  wrote

Well even Joseph Lowery - "The Dreamweaver father" - agrees with us. That is what Michele is referring to:

Wappler Intro from the The Dreamweaver Guru Joseph Lowery - YouTube

and the IndieGoGo crowdfunding campaign speaks for itself:

Wappler - World's Top Visual Web App Creator! | Indiegogo

Who cares about JL (no not Jennifer), take it from someone who has nothing to lose or gain, Wappler is in direct competition with Dreamweaver and I know now who is going to finish up as the winner. Goodbye DW!

[osgood_]

DMXzone.com  wrote

Well even Joseph Lowery - "The Dreamweaver father" - agrees with us. That is what Michele is referring to:

Wappler Intro from the The Dreamweaver Guru Joseph Lowery - YouTube

I wouldnt put too much emphasis on what a writer writes about web-developement..........writing is easy, its the doing it which is the difficult bit. Id rather hear from someone who has been or is still at the 'coalface' rather than someone who is possibly out of date.

[osgood_]

-Michele  wrote

From Wappler's crowdfund page:

Are you the Dreamweaver killer?

Absolutely. Adobe Dreamweaver is turning more and more into a tool for hardcore coders and loosing its well-known visual abilities. It's also a truth that Dreamweaver's development has being way behind the latest web or mobile app developments. Wappler is going further - where Dreamweaver hasn't gone before!

What you think about Wappler (seeing it in action on videos advertising)?

Is it time for Adobe to wake up?

Do you think Adobe should include in the next versions of Dreamweaver new dynamic behaviours for web and/or mobile applications?

Last but not least... should Adobe buy Wappler and include it as a new app in the CC subscription?

I think its safe to say that anyone who has been around these forums for more than a couple of weeks has issues with the way Dreamweaver has been going over that last few years. Unfortuantely it dropped the ball at around the same time as it more or less decided NOT to replace the server behaviour extensions.....personally I think that was a disastrous decision by whoever made it as DW became 'just another web-editor' amongst a lot of other much better ones, ones which were progress.

In its hey day DW was the go-to app for inexperienced developers wanting to connect their website to a database, it was unique, nothing else offered that option and is why many amatuers and experienced front-end devs piled into DW as if offered the basic tools to advance the options they were in turn able to offer potential and existing clients, without the added cost of employing an experience back-up programmer or additional paid-for extensions. OK as with ALL extensions, no matter who produces them, they have their limitation and are not a replcement for real coding, they provide a simple way to do basic things which is what a lot of developers/amatuers want and need.

Wappler is a strange one, potentailly it looks good if you like to spend the majority of your day trolling through a lot of menus, pointing and clicking but unless it gets to market soon so it can be tested in the 'real world' it remains an 'unknown' app.

Last time I looked 23 crowdfunders had been acquired which isnt a lot if you consider DMXzone has apparently 600000 subscribers. The 15000 Euro expectation for crowdfunding is very low, that would'nt even pay for a good software program devs wages for 3 months. I think they have set the bar too low possibly because they themselves are unsure of its potential to pay for itself through a subscription only based business model.

[BenPleysier]

Had to remove your post from the Moderator queue once again.

It is hard to say whether Wappler will be the tool for everybody. I have had the experience using the extensions over the past few years, encouraged by the removal of the SB panels. Once I got the gist of what the extensions were about, it was easy sailing. Having been in the Beta (read: Alpha) project for Wappler, it was dead easy to get used to the different panels and options. Even now, despite the current version (stands at 22) of Wappler not having the inclusion Server Connect, I do a lot of front end development using Wappler before going back to Dreamweaver to finish the project off.

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

Had to remove your post from the Moderator queue once again.

Its always moderated now.....I must be considered as 'dangerous' for some reason.

BenPleysier  wrote

Had to remove your post from the Moderator queue once again.

It is hard to say whether Wappler will be the tool for everybody.

Sure, for me the more the clickerty-click on offer the more its probably not for me. I dont really like options withing a program for inserting padding and marginn etc when its quicker and easier to do it directly in code view.........no-one who can code, not even you ofr Nancy uses a lot of the css panel stuff in DW, because its just too slow.

[BenPleysier]

no-one who can code, not even you ofr Nancy uses a lot of the css panel stuff in DW, because its just too slow.

I hate to admit it, but it is true.

I guess that, while I was testing Wappler, the novelty of not having to go into Code view sort of attracted me. Even then I quickly turned to code view to see what had been created. No monstrous stuff, just plain and simple coding according to the latest rules.

[pziecina]

Os, obviously you and me are considered a bad influence .

Dw I considered a very good prototyping tool, right up to CS6, so even for coders it had a market that other programs could not match. As for the updating of the SB's to pdo, that was possible because if everyone remembers I did convert the basics SB's to pdo. The main problem with the conversion, (apart from regex problems) was that Dw dropped the SB's and I could see no future in continuing the conversion of other server-side code, (building on the back of the SB code I decided was not viable, though 1 extension producer picked up on it, (stupidity in my opinion)). So conversion was possible, but very time consuming.

As for Dw becomming what it is, as long as those who have no idea about what is happening in web development have a say, support the direction the Dw managment has decided on in the last 3-4 versions, it will not change.

(I would say write to your acp and complain, but it is probably too late).

[BenPleysier]

What you think about Wappler?

A shakeup for the industry. These guys know what they are doing.

Is it time for Adobe to wake up?

Yes.

Do you think Adobe should include in the next versions of Dreamweaver new dynamic behaviours for web and/or mobile applications?

A bit late for that with two extension makers already providing excellent extension. Adobe should have had the sense to modify the initial Server behaviours. I had alluded to that back in the CS6 era, I was promised they would include the updated SB panels, yet this has been their greatest letdown.

should Adobe buy Wappler and include it as a new app in the CC subscription?

What? And kill it off like so many things that they do not grasp?

[BenPleysier]

The above has made my blood boil once again, just thinking about the past. As a result, I parted with some of my hard earned money to back the Wappler development Wappler - World's Top Visual Web App Creator! | Indiegogo

[-Michele]

BenPleysier  ha scritto

What you think about Wappler?

A shakeup for the industry. These guys know what they are doing.

Is it time for Adobe to wake up?

Yes.

Do you think Adobe should include in the next versions of Dreamweaver new dynamic behaviours for web and/or mobile applications?

A bit late for that with two extension makers already providing excellent extension. Adobe should have had the sense to modify the initial Server behaviours. I had alluded to that back in the CS6 era, I was promised they would include the updated SB panels, yet this has been their greatest letdown.

should Adobe buy Wappler and include it as a new app in the CC subscription?

What? And kill it off like so many things that they do not grasp?

I think that a tool to build mobile apps is missing in the Creative Cloud package.

Wappler is one of the few products (or maybe the only one) on the market that allows you to create advanced and complete apps for iOS and Android platforms (with Framework 7 and Cordova) without programming knowledge.

I remember a few attempts in the past to integrate PhoneGap on Dreamweaver but... obviously Adobe has removed everything.

[pziecina]

-Michele  wrote

I think that a tool to build mobile apps is missing in the Creative Cloud package.

Wappler is one of the few products (or maybe the only one) on the market that allows you to create advanced and complete apps for iOS and Android platforms (with Framework 7 and Cordova) without programming knowledge.

They do provide an app, it is called Dreamweaver.

You can use the w3c/html5 javascript api's to do everything that both Framework 7 and Cordove can do in a mobile app, except allow access to the devices user contact list. The only item you require that is not included is the iOS/Android packaging api, both though are available via the sdk's.

The main problem with using Dw is that the api's are javascript, and Dw has the worst javascript support available in any program now. Even free code editors such as VS code offer better support.

[-Michele]

pziecina  ha scritto

-Michele   wrote

I think that a tool to build mobile apps is missing in the Creative Cloud package.

Wappler is one of the few products (or maybe the only one) on the market that allows you to create advanced and complete apps for iOS and Android platforms (with Framework 7 and Cordova) without programming knowledge.

They do provide an app, it is called Dreamweaver.

You can use the w3c/html5 javascript api's to do everything that both Framework 7 and Cordove can do in a mobile app, except allow access to the devices user contact list. The only item you require that is not included is the iOS/Android packaging api, both though are available via the sdk's.

The main problem with using Dw is that the api's are javascript, and Dw has the worst javascript support available in any program now. Even free code editors such as VS code offer better support.

Wappler allow to connect the app to the remote database and create all the dynamic behaviours (all without touching the code), I don't think that Dreamweaver offers these same functions. Also, the integration with Framework 7 helps a lot.

[pziecina]

That's the difference between what Dw was, and Wappler.

You want a none coders program, which is Wappler, others want a coders program, which is not Dw no matter what anyone says.

[-Michele]

I wrote:

"I think that a tool to build mobile apps is missing in the Creative Cloud package."

I made a simple one consideration about the app portfolio availables on Creative Cloud and for me a solution as Wappler is missing.

That's all

[pziecina]

I'm not disagreeing with you, just the opposite. Something has gone seriously wrong with Dw over the years, and it has become a program that very few think is up to the job, no matter which type of user one is, (web developer or none coder).

I have my own thoughts about what went wrong, but I also think it is fast aproaching Dw's demise as anything but an 'also ran'.

[rayek.elfin]

Agree with you on all points. Dreamweaver target audience - who are they? I can't come up with a good answer. It's not very attractive to anyone, excepting those users who have been tied to DW out of habit for a long time.

I think the only thing keeping DW afloat is the simple fact it is part of the Creative Cloud package. If it weren't, it'd have been discontinued by now.

Perhaps it's also a matter of bad rep. No-one I know (students or colleagues alike) likes DW. Myself included. DW just lost its attractiveness along the way, and even if the DW team would bring it up to speed and on par with the competition, it still would have bad rep. Students don't even consider it an option.

Might be that this is the natural flow of web coding environments: one day you're 'in', the next day you're 'out'. 😜

[pziecina]

rayek.elfin  wrote

Might be that this is the natural flow of web coding environments: one day you're 'in', the next day you're 'out'. 😜

Maybe, but Dw started to loose the plot, (along with fireworks and flash) when mobile devices started to become popular. If you go back to CS5's release they completely ignored html5, css(3) and mobile in favour of cms theme creation support, (wordpress etc), then when I and a number of others 'complained' about no support for html5, css3 and mobile, we were told that html5 etc would not be usable until 2020 at the earliest.

That did not change for a couple of months, until Scott the then Dw PM joined in the discussions which led to the html5/css3 extension being released. They then released CS6 with FGL's, which was a complete failure, (they did know about flexbox by then, as I told them) and decided on creating a more visual environment for css and live view, (not their fault that was what Adobe wanted) in the original CC release, along with the removal of SB's in the CS6 cloud version.

Many of the Dw team moved to the development of not just Brackets, but the Edge products, after CS6 was released, (some before) removing lots of the more experienced Dw team members from taking part in further development in Dw. That decision was I think what ended innovation in Dw as almost no one was left who knew what was happening.

Now though, most of those involved in Dw development have no idea about web development, or even have to know how to code a modern web site, as the only criteria now is, 'have they written a book about an Adobe product' (does not have to be about Dw or web development, or within the last 15 years) or are they an acp.

Ask yourself, (or your students) how does anyone know what is required in a web development program, if they don't know what something is or how it should work? The only answer I can come up with, is that it is impossible. So for Dw we end up with stagnation, 3rd party 'features' and even people advising those asking question to 'drop back to an older version', (including Adobe/Dw staff).

And people have to ask if Wappler will be a Dw killer !!!

[W_J_T]

^

So to sum it up, Adobe alone was/is the “Dreamweaver Killer” the day they bought it from Macromedia. They have been subsequently sticking knives in its back exponentially to get to where we are today, in its current decrepit state. A tragic tale indeed but murder solved, case closed. That will go down in the history books as to whom killed Dreamweaver.

[pziecina]

Got it in one.

When an Adobe director was asked why they had bought Macromedia he answered with one word -

'Flash'.

When that same director was asked what about Dreamweaver, he answered -

'whats that'.

The above is no joke, and was part of a published interview just after the take-over.

[BenPleysier]

Here is a name from the past Don Booth | Flickr and it was much longer than a year ago that he sought greener pastures Donald Booth.

[osgood_]

I dont know who has been running the show at DW over the past years but they have no clue what makes a program unique and desirable. The options which a lot depended upon, even me at one stage as a plugin popper, were never upgraded but dead in the water projects like fluid grids took pride of place and failed.

Although l now dont use built in features, some like SB's are non replacable killer inclusions, a point which was never taken seriously by the DW management team despite the opposite feedback of experienced developers in this forum dating back years.

Every main stream web program which has ever come to market has at some point stagnated and it seems DW at that point just waiting to fall through that trap door now. I dont think there is anyway back now for it other than pensioning it off and coming up with an alternative killer app as they did with InDesign, its been done before.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

I dont know who has been running the show at DW over the past years but they have no clue what makes a program unique and desirable.

Have we not been through everything in this and other discussion before regarding Dw?

The only thing different to me in this discussion, is that even Ben cannot see Dw offering anything near to what Wappler is now offering.

[Nancy OShea]

pziecina  wrote

The only thing different to me in this discussion, is that even Ben cannot see Dw offering anything near to what Wappler is now offering.

Only if it works as claimed.   I think that remains an unknown at this point.