OT: A little bit more about Wappler - confusion

[osgood_]

I never really could understand DMXzones main website and the myriad of different extension available and what extension would be required to do this or that.........it seems Wappler is going to be just as confusing.

https://wappler.io/extensions.html

Thankfully I have no need for extensions otherwise it would take me a week to understand what ones I needed.

I mean the 'basic' version includes:

App Connect Data Formatter

App Connect Browser

What the heck are they? Doesn't actually say anything about what they do and why you might need them and dont forget we are appealing to 'Bob the Builder' type of developers so if I have no clue they arent going to for sure. A link perhaps to the info on their main site would be good or even better a modal window which pops up detailing in what situation you may need to use them

Does the 'Pro' version contain  all the 'basic & free' extensions???.... the way the info is provided you could be forgiven for not really knowing?

Why not just have 3 headings Free, Basic, Pro and list whats included in each option under the 3 main headings..........far too simple and logical I guess

[osgood_]

W_J_T  wrote

So how many "discussions" need to take place, focused or scattered on this forum?

I think this place has just become a sounding board for discontent users or ex-users, with a few relative web-development questions thrown in, mostly by school kids with their new toy

I don't think its going to change  a thing but its good to get it out there rather than bottle it up inside.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

I think this place has just become a sounding board for discontent users or ex-users, with a few relative web-development questions thrown in, mostly by school kids with their new toy

What everyone posting in this forum has to remember is -

1. No Adobe employee is allowed to comment in discussions such as this, without senior managements permission, (and that is not going to happen).
2. The person posting a question about Dw, is either annoyed with it due to a bug, or is probably in way over their heads as far as code is concerned.
3. If you have even read about css pointer-events, you probably know more about css than most Dw CAB/pre-release members, or any Dw team member.
4. Posting about what is wrong with Dw, is good for your health, as it lowers your blood pressure.
5. The inclussion of Bootstrap in Dw, means that most users will never even consider using any other type of layout, and will think that is the Dw recommended layout method.
6. Keeping it civil, and not expecting anything to change are pre-requisites for everyone.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

1. No Adobe employee is allowed to comment in discussions such as this, without senior managements permission, (and that is not going to happen).

Imagine what some might say if they could, probably lose their job for siding with us concerning the misdirection of things. Must be even more terrible for them to be silenced and hands tied in development, must feel like beating your head against a wall everyday. At least for a few that care and understand the situation I would hope.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Coders outnumber the code-less, are more willing to experiment with new possibilities, and are in greater demand by employers.

No-one who is a plugin popper and point and click merchant is in demand by anyone but themselves, least of all employers

[BenPleysier]

W_J_T  wrote

Since the other Wappler Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer? , while I was typing.

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Please PM me if you have a valid argument to unlock the other discussion.

[W_J_T]

BenPleysier  wrote

W_J_T   wrote

Since the other Wappler Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer?  , while I was typing.

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Please PM me if you have a valid argument to unlock the other discussion.

Read my statement you quoted, that says it all.

[BenPleysier]

W_J_T  wrote

BenPleysier   wrote

W_J_T    wrote

Since the other Wappler Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer?   , while I was typing.

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Please PM me if you have a valid argument to unlock the other discussion.

Read my statement you quoted, that says it all.

So, are you saying that I should not have closed the discussion because I am a Wappler beta tester and financial backer of the program? Is that your valid argument?

[W_J_T]

BenPleysier  wrote

So, are you saying that I should not have closed the discussion because I am a Wappler beta tester and financial backer of the program? Is that your valid argument?

Note this portion of my statement: "Which provides the perception of conflict of interest".

I'm not sure how that overall statement could be made more clear. Validity is subjective, but feel free to use your sheriff badge as you see fit. I was merely pointing out the possible conflict of interest aspect regarding not letting people openly have a discussion. My statement was pretty conclusive to that thought, but again do as you see fit. I am just a badge-less citizen being moderated.

[BenPleysier]

W_J_T  wrote

I am just a badge-less citizen being moderated.

Yes and not without a reason.

[W_J_T]

BenPleysier  wrote

W_J_T   wrote

I am just a badge-less citizen being moderated.

Yes and not without a reason.

That's your response to the possible notion I raised concerning conflict of interest? I would rather hear from someone like Preran​ , since that comment demonstrates arrogance and a puffed up attitude on your part. Don't let the badge go to your head Ben.

By contrast this thread Re: Substitute for Dreamweaver , was closed and reopened after Preran  responded to the notion of "censor, stymie and silence discussions".

So sherif BenPleysier , aside from your perceived conflict of interest in closing that thread, why did you deem it fit to be closed when the one mentioned above was reopened? Instead of seeking my reason which I already clearly stated and restated. Perhaps its time for you to provide yours, since where much is given much is required.

PS: I was no longer being moderated, until I was placed back again after posting this morning. Coincidence?

[BenPleysier]

W_J_T  wrote

BenPleysier   wrote

W_J_T    wrote

I am just a badge-less citizen being moderated.

Yes and not without a reason.

That's your response to the possible notion I raised concerning conflict of interest? I would rather hear from someone like Preran  , since that comment demonstrates arrogance and a puffed up attitude on your part. Don't let the badge go to your head Ben.

I think you need to calm down somewhat. There can be many reasons why you are a badge-less citizen, e.g. you do not want to be labelled, and you are not the only one being moderated. Even those that have never posted to this forum have had their post sent to the Moderators queue.

But your so-called 'perceived conflict of interest' reason for re-opening the discussion is not valid. Because my interests lie with Wappler, it would have been better to have not closed it, it does no harm to have Wappler bandied around as much as possible even if it is in a negative sense. All good advertising for which I do thank you.

As a side note, please use the correct spelling for the title that you have given me.

[pziecina]

BenPleysier  wrote

But your so-called 'perceived conflict of interest' reason for re-opening the discussion is not valid. Because my interests lie with Wappler, it would have been better to have not closed it, ...

I still think locking the other discussion was correct as the OP had not taken part for 5 days and 40+ posts. Unlike this discussion in which Osgood, (the owner) is still taking part.

As for your interests now lying with Wappler, does this mean I can now say what I think is wrong with Dw and Adobes support for the web developer, (I have held back up to now) .

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

As for your interests now lying with Wappler, does this mean I can now say what I think is wrong with Dw and Adobes support for the web developer, (I have held back up to now) .

As owner of this thread, l think, feel free........lm just pouring a whisky. Give it both barrels

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

pziecina   wrote

As for your interests now lying with Wappler, does this mean I can now say what I think is wrong with Dw and Adobes support for the web developer, (I have held back up to now) .

As owner of this thread, l think, feel free........lm just pouring a whisky. Give it both barrels

Now that's an idea I can get behind, cheers

[BenPleysier]

pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

pziecina    wrote

As for your interests now lying with Wappler, does this mean I can now say what I think is wrong with Dw and Adobes support for the web developer, (I have held back up to now) .

As owner of this thread, l think, feel free........lm just pouring a whisky. Give it both barrels

Now that's an idea I can get behind, cheers

That is the reason why I am so talkative, mine are cognacs and it is 6:30 am.

Pretty Tired- Forrest Gump Quote - YouTube

[BenPleysier]

I have been passing the problems on to the Dreamweaver team all along, I just do not do it publicly.

As you know, I am a pragmatic and I use the tools that best suit me. I have tried other tools and I enjoy reading about others doing the same. I have been there and done that. To date, I am using Dreamweaver because it best suits me although I will use other tools because they are better suited. As an example, I use Prepros because I can't get Dreamweaver to process my Sass files, specifically the latest Bootstrap version. Yes, the Dreamweaver team knows about it

I am still in two minds about Wappler. At the moment I see it doing the same things as Dreamweaver with DMXZone extensions.

And here comes the but: Dreamweaver has its shortcomings for what the guys in Enschede have in mind.

[osgood_]

The burning question is will it ever get out of Enschede because from what l can tell its some kind of pet project which gets reinvented every other month. At some point you have to release the app even if its not 100% perfect because it never will be.

[BenPleysier]

osgood_  you guys are playing the guessing game along with fictitious stories. Wrong conclusions have been made partially because of Wappler's doing.

Take the following

If you take the number of backers, you will count 51 and the amount will be 15.599.

That's a story that you can discuss while I take a nap.

[osgood_]

Well if you set yourself up by declaring you have 600000 subscribers, dont announce the number of initial beta testers and only set an initial goal of 15000 Euros..................unfortunately its all being played out in the open.

[W_J_T]

osgood_  wrote

Well if you set yourself up by declaring you have 600000 subscribers, dont announce the number of initial beta testers and only set an initial goal of 15000 Euros..................unfortunately its all being played out in the open.

Exactly.

BenPleysier  wrote

conclusions have been made partially because of Wappler's doing.

Partially? LOL.

They have made so many mistakes and blunders in presenting this Wappler offering from day one. How can anyone attribute their mistakes to others parsing the data they present. They control the media releases and all information provided to the public. Even if someone does come to the wrong conclusion, it can simply be traced back to the Wappler team and their inept ability or choice to not properly communicate their offering clearly and correctly - in the past, currently in the present, and no doubt moving into the future.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

Well if you set yourself up by declaring you have 600000 subscribers, dont announce the number of initial beta testers and only set an initial goal of 15000 Euros..................unfortunately its all being played out in the open.

Until they say if that 600 thousand is per year, or since they started trading, I will not take it seriously.

[W_J_T]

osgood_  wrote

Initially that was supposed to be what was going to happen but it seems to have taken a rather strange turn of events for some reason. I guess if they have run out of cash to fund it and its a way off ready to go, as it seems to be, then that is the only way to keep it alive.  Thats the only reason they would have to turn to crowd funding.

osgood_  wrote

The burning question is will it ever get out of Enschede because from what l can tell its some kind of pet project which gets reinvented every other month. At some point you have to release the app even if its not 100% perfect because it never will be.

Perhaps you are right concerning cashflow and the ability for this endeavor to stay afloat, as the new crowdfunding goal is now 1000%, with no talk at all of a public release. So I doubt, or at least it appears even more unclear, if interested people will ever get to review the free version anytime soon to formulate their own conclusions.

I am starting to think the German version of the name is pretty fitting.

[williamj31276244]

Do you guys (in this topic) even know what is the purpose of Crowdfunding campaigns? Well, as it seems you have no idea about these things - It is surely not to sell you a ready-to-use product...

Crowdfunding campaigns give you an option to support the developers during the process of building their tools - and they set the target they need which could be $50, $500 or $500.000. Then after the product is released you already have access to it, as you supported them during the campaign.

Note that Wappler is being developed by DMXzone and their main business is selling DW extensions, so they profit enough from the DMXzone extensions obviously as they've been in the business for the last 15 years. Do you really think they rely on the crowdfunding campaign to develop this tool lol lol? As a yearly subscriber for DMXzone extensions i see they keep releasing and updating extensions every (or almost every) week and nothing on DMXzone has really changed since they started developing Wappler - no delays or postponed releases.

Also - not sure what exactly do you find confusing about it? I see all of the front and back end components integrated in Wappler - the ones i am using in DW every day. I am not a part of beta testers but i like what i already see on the crowdfunding page and in the videos they share and without any doubt i will get a license for the pro version during the campaign which of course will put in me the beta community until Wappler is officially released.

[W_J_T]

Thanks for the edification concerning what crowdfunding is.

jamies34641468  wrote

It is surely not to sell you a ready-to-use product...

Surely not ... just funding a "concept", and an ever changing "work in progress".

Thats what the Macaw people did also, 2,752 backers pledged $275,929 and nothing ever came to fruition beyond a "concept", with bugs, lost investment and 2,752 upset users. Crowdfuding a has its +/- for investing in "Concepts".

jamies34641468  wrote

target they need which could be $50, $500 or $500.000.

Or in Wappler's case €15,000. But now they are summoning the desire for 1000% from the original goal. So why did they set the bar so low in the first place? Do they understand crowdfunding.

[williamj31276244]

I don't know who Macaw people are and what their project was, but as a long-time DMXzone customer i don't think this is the case here i.e. stealing the colossal amount of $15k after hundreds of thousands of extensions sales during the years

I even think they collect the same amount the day they release a new extension on dmxzone website. I've funded 3 different projects on kickstarter and all of them were successfully released.

Note that the money collected during the campaign could just be used for the ongoing marketing, as they say in the tweet a few posts above - so i find nothing wrong that they set the bar so low. Even better - this means they have enough funds to develop this app and they won't fail due to an unsuccessful campaign