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O
osgood_
Brainiac
February 26, 2019
Question

OT: What going on these days??

  • February 26, 2019
  • 4 replies
  • 3362 views

As its been quiet around here for a few days I thought I would try and generate a discussion as to what the hell is going on these days in terms of website building.

Once upon a time I could go to any website, pull up the source code and I had a pretty good idea of what was going on, now I'm encountering more and more websites where I  have zero idea of what is happening.

Take this webpage for example:

https://www.ncgtp.com/resources/Pages/news.aspx

A fairly inocculous looking layout and presentation, one which could be produced in about and hour or two of hand-coding. It doesn't do anything, no movement, swipers, slideshows etc a simple form, yet look at the source code.

It has literally dozens of links to resources and dependencies - I can't even begin to count them. There is scripting injected all-over the place.

I'm totally confused as to why, what and how this has been produced and for what purpose it serves.

So the question on my lips and has been for a couple of years now - what kind of era are we in now as regards to consideration of the output of what is running and produced behind the facade. It this cutting-edge techniques, a developer with very little knowledge or a hell of a lot of knowledge or just some kind of build tools that are generating all this what seems to me like excessive coding to produce a simple page. Are we into the era of using a sledgehammer approach to crap a nut because no one has the ability and skills any longer these days beyond a click and shoot, over zealous framework approach?

Can anyone justifiably provide a good reason for such a bloated and convoluted appproach to deliver a simple page?

    This topic has been closed for replies.

    4 replies

    P
    Paul-M
    Community Expert
    February 28, 2019

    In my case, I have chosen a program called Wappler that utilises Bootstrap, ServerConnect and AppConnect. For those that are not familiar with Wappler, it is very similar to Dreamweaver with DMXzone extensions.

    I've only had a quick look at Wappler and it looks like the code editor is too basic  ....  But I'm guessing that's not a priority for them anyway with their target audience... If Wappler wants to be considered a Dreamweaver replacement it'll need a better a code editor.

    Paul-M - Community Expert
    O
    osgood_Author
    Brainiac
    February 28, 2019

    That reply should really be addressed to Ben as I don't personally use Wappler, although I'm keeping tabs on it to see how it develops.

    However you are right Wapplers editor does leave much to be desired but as you are aware and point out it's not a priority. Hopefully at some point they will improve that environment to maybe attract more code-orientated developers who want to take advantage of the back-end features, which might be beyond their capabilities.

    However I am impressesed with what the actual programme can do despite my concerns over the niche code it creates. I guess these days with so many options available which use their own workflows  is that a real deal breaker now - I'm sitting on the fence a bit on that one now.

    It would certainly be a good fit for a lot who are somehow connected/involved in web-development, maybe not those with long term ambitions but those whose job perhaps partly involves web-development or those who just want to create a website for their small company or individual requirements.

    If you're happy to use a 'unique' way of producing websites then it's a real consideration. That kind of decision can only be determined by the person considering those options, their own expectations and where they want to be in 5 years time.

    BenPleysier
    BenPleysier
    Community Expert
    February 26, 2019

    Actually, the creators of the site are very savvy web developers with a lot of skill and knowledge. This can be illustrated by the fact that the Bootstrap library has been chosen for their main source of style rules. The only criticism that I have is that they are not using an HTTP/2 NGINX server which would reduce the initial load time.

    Perhaps we should have a closer look at what the developers have created; it is called a Single Page Application (SPA) This is not a new concept, I used SPA over a decade ago. Back then, it did produce rather nasty looking URL's like

    safeshop.com.au/index.php?mod=contact

    Now, with (the knowledge of) URL rewriting, we can change this to improve usability and friendliness.

    The idea of an SPA is that the index page is a template which draws the relevant content into itself.

    For more on SPA's have a look at https://medium.com/@anthonygore/how-to-not-screw-up-ux-in-a-single-page-application-b1b7ebdea2c2 or Google the subject.

    Wappler is the DMXzone-made Dreamweaver replacement and includes the best of their powerful extensions, as well as much more!
    O
    osgood_Author
    Brainiac
    February 26, 2019

    What do all those javascript files and injected javascript code blocks have to do with a single page application?If your going to create a single page application then at least do it correctly and not use some half baked workflow which this quite clearly is.

    BenPleysier
    BenPleysier
    Community Expert
    February 27, 2019

    I think that you will find that not all of the linked files are used for this (News) particular view, but are required on other views. There are at least 22 other views that I can see.

    Some of these files are:

    <!-- Modernizr -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/modernizr.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- jQuery -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/jquery/2.2.4/jquery.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Bing Maps V8 -->

    <script src="//www.bing.com/api/maps/mapcontrol?branch=release"></script>

    <!-- jQuery UI -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/jquery-ui/jquery-ui.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- SPServices -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/spservices/jquery.SPServices-2014.02.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Moment -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/moment/2.15.0/moment.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Handlebars -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/handlebars/2.0.0/handlebars.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Unslider -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/unslider/2.0/unslider.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- DataTables -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/datatables/1.10.10/jquery.dataTables.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- DataTables Responsive -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/datatables-responsive/2.1.1/dataTables.responsive.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Cookie -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/js-cookie/2.1.3/js.cookie.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Picturefill -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/picturefill.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- matchMedia polyfill -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/matchMedia.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- card set - match Height -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/matchHeight.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Readmore -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/readmore.min.js?rev=08232017"></script>

    <!-- Lazy Sizes Images -->

    <script src="/_layouts/15/NCDOT.RNR.Branding/assets/js/libs/lazysizes.min.js?rev=09102017"></script>

    and there are many more jQuery (and other) plugins.

    I am not defending the concept, just saying.

    Wappler is the DMXzone-made Dreamweaver replacement and includes the best of their powerful extensions, as well as much more!
    Nancy OShea
    Nancy OShea
    Community Expert
    February 26, 2019

    osgood_  wrote

    I'm totally confused as to why, what and how this has been produced and for what purpose it serves.

    One word:  Sharepoint.

    I suspect the real nuts & bolts are for a much bigger corporate purpose that the public doesn't see.

    Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert
    O
    osgood_Author
    Brainiac
    February 26, 2019

    https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

    osgood_   wrote

    I'm totally confused as to why, what and how this has been produced and for what purpose it serves.

    One word:  Sharepoint.

    I suspect the real nuts & bolts are for a much bigger corporate purpose that the public doesn't see.

    If the public has no reason to see why include what is not needed on public pages, it doesnt make any sense at all.

    To me it just looks like its a template that many companies deploy these days as a starting point and if the website doesn't take advantage of the scripts the developers don't bother to remove them.

    Whatever its a pile of unconsidered horse dung in my opinion - If you click on the form submit button it scrolls you all the way to the top of the page so you have to scroll all the way down again to fill in the fields you missed. As a client I would not accept that and as a developer I would consider myself a poor excuse.

    You could be right though - Sharepoint has some input into all of this but for what purpose, other than no one knows what they are doing, I have no idea for such a simple page. No human would write that obtuse coding - only a geeky programmer could have come up with that automated, convoluted, bloated bats crap to cover all eventualities, so yes you could well be right its been produced by something, maybe Sharepoint which would account for the awful outcome.

    Nancy OShea
    Nancy OShea
    Community Expert
    February 26, 2019

    A department  wants a public facing web page so they build it with the corporate CMS  because that's what's available to them.   The "developer" isn't a web developer, like you or me.  More likely a department intern or a new hire.   And what do they care about code since they never see it

    Have you ever looked at the sourse code from an Adobe Portfolio site?   PF users have no contact with code.   It's all generated by the online CMS.

    Adobe Portfolio | Build your own personalized website

    Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert
      pziecina
      pziecina
      Brainiac
      February 26, 2019

      I don't participate often in forums anymore, not because I am not interested but because I see sites like the one you linked to becomming the norm for small buisneses, (btw -the w3c classifies medium sized buisnesses and organisations as having a revenue of $50 million to $500 million).

      It has become obvious since the demise of Muse, that very few small buisneses and the builders of sites for them do not want to know or even care about the code behind the site. There was even a post in the Muse forum about alternative products that said how good the alternative was, because it now uses absolute positioning.

      Just to throw in a little item for a possible controversial discussion, has anyone thought that forums such as this are partly responsible for the 'sorry state of web development' when it comes to smaller sites? After all most answers use or point to pre-built solutions, and just like validation and accessibility now, no mention of the code uses by the solutions is of importance anymore.

      rayek.elfin
      rayek.elfin
      Brainiac
      February 27, 2019

      As Nancy OShea​ pointed out, that horrible mess of a website is a MS server-based Sharepoint site. As for the reasons why a company would choose such a "solution" for a simple website? Well, the executive director is visited by a group of Very Professional Looking Sharepoint Suits, shown a super-duper presentation why their company MUST use a convoluted needlessly complicated "business solution", and the poor people in the lower bowels of said company's system admin department are there to pick up the pieces. No matter how practical-minded, no matter how the system admins tell their managers that that new snazzy "business solution" is a tar-filled pit of doom, once the execs made their minds up, Sharepoint it is.

      On a more positive note, I am returning to a simpler workflow lately. No more Bootstrap, no more Foundation, no more ridiculously over-thought frameworks. I am in love with the CSS grid, and simple vanilla javascript. As flat a html structure as I can get away with.

      Throwing away all that fluff is rekindling my passion for front-end work once more. Simplicity, simplicity.

      And I am not the only one. I know many more developers who have had it with the over-reliance on over-complicated frameworks for whatever. I understand the need for those when dealing with a complicated (web)app, but for most work vanilla simplicity works better and is more flexible. And far more efficient.

      PS I hear Bootstrap's popularity is faltering. Good riddance, I say.

      ALsp
      ALsp
      Brainiac
      February 27, 2019

      rayek.elfin  wrote

      PS I hear Bootstrap's popularity is faltering. Good riddance, I say.

      I've heard the same thing. It should be interesting to see if an open source initiative that should, theoretically, have no financial interest or risks, such as the Bootstrap team, puts up a fight or tries to improve its code. I wonder how many Dreamweaver users have gotten all of their Boilerplate sites converted over to Bootstrap. It's entertaining to watch how these things play out. In any event, it will likely take a few years until the next big thing truly takes hold. And it will. Of that there is no doubt. I mean, you have some people using a bloated CSS library because it has associated support for bloated JavaScript widgets. Go figure.

      Glad the forum programmers finally fixed the RSS feeds. Perhaps some folks wish it were still broken ;-)

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