336 new pantone colors

[jesse63]

Hi !

I have a problem: the recently released 336 pantone colors are not included in the latest CS6 InDesign pantone color libraries.

Does anybody know how to get thes new colors integrated in InDesign?

kindly, Jes

[rob day]

within the color palettes built into the design applications

There are no color palettes built-in to InDesign—the swatch books are plugins, which you can add, remove, or update.

[Bobby Henderson]

That's splitting hairs. When you install the application it includes a bunch of swatch books the user doesn't have to manually add. Certainly the swatch books can be updated manually (or via a point release update from Adobe).

[rob day]

That's splitting hairs. When you install the application it includes a bunch of swatch books the user doesn't have to manually add.

And it also installs fonts that may or may not be useful. In the end it's up to me to manage the fonts and make sure I have the correct version of Helvetica etc., or decide if I want to purchase higher quality fonts. Saying the color libraries are built-in implies that we have no control over them, which isn't the case

[McShaman]

And having accurate on-screen representations is invaluable when you're experimenting, as s having the lab values for colour management.

I agree... But this should be achievable through existing colour management systems. And using the Pantone App you can exactly see how the colours work together within the actual design. I hope your right regarding the open source solution.

[rob day]

I hope your right regarding the open source solution

Pantone sells a physical product—ink, ink formulas, and printed swatches of the solid inks—which would have to be very expensive to produce and is reflected in the cost of the swatch books. So what does open source mean when the product is ink? Is some public service organization going to start manufacturing ink and printed swatches?

[Danny Whitehead.]

Well, if such a system was ever established, I imagine the specifications (LAB values, ink formulas etc), would be freely available to any organisation wishing produce and sell swatch books.

I'm not exactly hopeful it will ever happen, but someone has tried:

Building an Open Colour Standard

[Bobby Henderson]

Open standards or not, in my humble opinion Pantone would sell more inks and up to date swatch books if they didn't play the games they're currently playing with their newest colors. As a designer, I am simply not going to specify a certain exotic spot color if it means me having to jump through a bunch of hoops in my work flow to get it reproduced. The only way I'm going to specify one of these "+336" colors is if a customer mandates it. But that customer is also going to know those out of standard color choices are going to cost him extra in terms of design fees.

[clock face]

email from Pantone Tech Support:

I apologize for any confusion and frustration, but Adobe is a licensed software partner of Pantone and they are provided the color data.  The libraries they include in their software programs are the initial Pantone Plus Series libraries from 2010.  It would be Adobe’s decision (or any licensed partner of Pantone) in terms of what updates or color libraries they include in their solutions, Pantone does not control this.  This is why we have Pantone Color Manager and Pantone Connect available as it is our solutions / software to allow users access to Pantone digital libraries, their data as well as additional functions that are commonly used in terms of building palettes and/or using these colors in Adobe programs. 

[Dov Isaacs]

Don't believe what is in the e-mail from Pantone Tech Support. Pantone does not provide “all licensed software partners” all the libraries and updates. We distribute what we get from Pantone, period!

[Peter Spier]

Exactly which colors are missing? CS6 comes with the Pantone Plus library.

[Peter Spier]

Ah I see. The Pantone 336 supplement books....

[jesse63]

Exactly - among them 2211 U, 2323 U, 2310 U ... meaning CS6 comes with an incomplete Pantone Plus library

[Peter Spier]

Spend the $49....

[Rutledge_Design_Melbourne]

This won't help for the recent 336 colors but will help with missing standard colors:

Find an older version of Illustrator, in my case it was CS2, and copy your 'color books' folder across to CS6 and rename 'color books 2'... now you will have all your missing colours.

I think Panton are pretty weak to go gouging customers in this fashion - to not have previously installed colors, now missing in current pantone books in Illustrator.

$49?! or buy new Pantone books?!! I'd rather boycott your colors Pantone!

[Phoenix_Steve]

I find it highly irritating that the current version of Creative Suite doesn't include all existing Pantone colors in its libraries. What is the problem I wonder?

[Dov Isaacs]

Adobe includes everything that Pantone provides for us to distribute. We are not “holding back” on anything. If you have issues with this, please contact Pantone.

          - Dov

[ethanpeetkegler]

Adobe includes everything that Pantone provides for us to distribute. We are not “holding back” on anything. If you have issues with this, please contact Pantone

But… this is simply not true. This thread is nearly two years old, and in that time Adobe has updated their software at least twice. Pantone has added hundreds of new colors to their libraries, but those colors have not been added to your updated software. Now, I understand that your wording, "everything that Pantone provides for us to distribute" is intentionally disingenuous, deflecting the blame for your failure on to the shoulders of Pantone, but that doesn't change the fact that BOTH companies are failing the design community right now. There are absolutely no valid reasons for either company to be holding these additional colors back from your consumers years after they've been released.

[Dov Isaacs]

Ethan Smith wrote:

Adobe includes everything that Pantone provides for us to distribute. We are not “holding back” on anything. If you have issues with this, please contact Pantone

But… this is simply not true. This thread is nearly two years old, and in that time Adobe has updated their software at least twice. Pantone has added hundreds of new colors to their libraries, but those colors have not been added to your updated software. Now, I understand that your wording, "everything that Pantone provides for us to distribute" is intentionally disingenuous, deflecting the blame for your failure on to the shoulders of Pantone, but that doesn't change the fact that BOTH companies are failing the design community right now. There are absolutely no valid reasons for either company to be holding these additional colors back from your consumers years after they've been released.

Actually, regardless of what you think, it is absolutely true. We have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to not distribute Pantone color palettes that they make available to us to distribute. And we are not at liberty to make our own corrections, deletions, or additions to what is given to us to distribute.

I do agree that the current situation vis-a-vis multiple conflicting versions of Pantone colors, subsets delivered via multiple means, etc. puts the users as well as Adobe in a very difficult situation. Remember, we are users of our own products as well!

          - Dov

[ethanpeetkegler]

Actually, regardless of what you think, it is absolutely true. We have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to not distribute Pantone color palettes…

I'm sorry, I know you are trying to find a very diplomatic way of wording that, but it absolutely is not true. Objectively not true. Adobe must have an incentive to not distribute the new Pantone color books, because Adobe is not distributing the new Pantone color books. That incentive may be "Pantone won't let us," or "It is cost prohibitive," or "Our sales directive doesn't allow for it," or "We haven't yet added it to our programming directive," or any number of genuine reasons. But there is a reason. We don't know what it is, and I understand that you may not be at liberty to say what it is, but it exists.

Your company or Pantone or both made a decision that fundamentally changed the current production routine. Adobe, at some point in the process, made the decision that this change is acceptable and relinquished responsibility for having updated color books and foisted it onto us, the design community.

As I said before, I don't care who's to blame, I care about solutions. And neither Adobe nor Pantone seem willing to offer anything beyond, "figure it out for yourself."

[Dov Isaacs]

Ethan Smith wrote:

Actually, regardless of what you think, it is absolutely true. We have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to not distribute Pantone color palettes…

I'm sorry, I know you are trying to find a very diplomatic way of wording that, but it absolutely is not true. Objectively not true. Adobe must have an incentive to not distribute the new Pantone color books, because Adobe is not distributing the new Pantone color books. That incentive may be "Pantone won't let us," or "It is cost prohibitive," or "Our sales directive doesn't allow for it," or "We haven't yet added it to our programming directive," or any number of genuine reasons. But there is a reason. We don't know what it is, and I understand that you may not be at liberty to say what it is, but it exists.

Your company or Pantone or both made a decision that fundamentally changed the current production routine. Adobe, at some point in the process, made the decision that this change is acceptable and relinquished responsibility for having updated color books and foisted it onto us, the design community.

As I said before, I don't care who's to blame, I care about solutions. And neither Adobe nor Pantone seem willing to offer anything beyond, "figure it out for yourself."

You are reading way too much into the situation. Since Adobe began developing and distributing illustration, image processing, and layout software, we have distributed exactly what Pantone has given us for distribution to our customers for current releases. That means that what we have distributed as Pantone color books have had inconsistencies, compatibility issues (changed definitions and dropped colors), and other anomalies. Whether you or I like that, there is nothing else that Pantone is making available to us to distribute. It would appear that Pantone wants a direct relationship with creative professionals and printers to derive revenue in that manner. Contrary to your assertion that “Adobe, at some point in the process, made the decision that this change is acceptable and relinquished responsibility for having updated color books,” there has not been any change on our part. We made no decision to not distribute anything from Pantone. Our only other alternative is to stop including the Pantone definitions entirely and letting our customers deal with Pantone directly with whatever licensing arrangements they have; maybe that would be a better experience.

Needless to say, I know of absolutely no one who is happy with the situation including those of us internally who need to use these products with Pantone Spot or Process color definitions (that includes myself).

           - Dov

[ethanpeetkegler]

Our only other alternative is to stop including the Pantone definitions entirely and letting our customers deal with Pantone directly with whatever licensing arrangements they have; maybe that would be a better experience.

To be quite honest, this is the initial solution. Not because it's a better experience for the user (it's not), but because Adobe shouldn't be supplying outdated and inaccurate color books to its customers. I'm sure Pantone enjoys the advertising it gets from having the old books included in every Adobe release, but nobody else is benefiting. In fact, the rest of us are being deliberately inconvenienced. If Pantone genuinely thinks they would be better served by charging a fee to everyone who wants access to color sets, I'm not even sure why they allow their old books to be included in the first place. And I'm not sure why Adobe is content to offer old Pantone books that disrupt the design process.

The best solution, of course, is to have Adobe and Pantone work together to make sure that Adobe software includes a complete, accurate set of color books. But that's way above my pay grade.

[MW Design]

I am uncertain whether my settings transfer included swatches from CS6 or not. I think those were also transfered. But you can check. Look to see if you have Pantone V.2 swatches or not. If so, then Adobe is supplying the latest from Pantone. If not, then they should get them from Pantone. The V.2 is at the end of the swatch name and includes the formerly separate 336 color swatches.

Seems like a phone call from Adobe could get this straightened out if Pantone isn't merely "providing" them to Adobe. Other layout applications I have that have been updated since the V.2 swatches came out include them. I'll also plug the Pantone Color Manager...if you need the latest swatches, it is a relatively cheap investment if you don't have the physical swatch books to register (which if you do, I believe it is free). The PCM software will always be updated before any software's library. Do note that PCM isn't without its faults. Sometimes it looses its brain and the cache needs deleted and rebuilt. Even their tech support has to do so once in a while. It is a finicky piece of software.

Mike

[Peter Spier]

I did a job a couple of months ago, in CS6, and spec'd 7703, a swatch from the new books (had to buy the books so I could show the client).

[Guest]

I bought new Pantone books within the last few months, and upgraded to CC two weeks ago. I can't believe I have to read pages and pages of stuff for the ONE PMS color that I need right now. What an utter waste of time.

How much time are we (designers) expected to invest in a Pantone piece of software? Pantone is not my business, design is my business. Pantone is a support tool for my design programs, it should NOT be the focus of my workday.

Extremely aggravated....

[MW Design]

Pantone Color Manager software is free, I believe, for anyone who has bought the updated books. Check the Pantone Web site. John from Pantone likely indicates that in this thread...bbut it's been a while since I read the whole thing.

Mike