Bizarre issue while handling old document

[Typothalamus]

Lengthy document suddenly exhibiting:
1. a small black square dead center in the pages panel on just one page spread; all other pages fine

2. on that spread, there's a thick black line running down the middle

3. hitting W turns not only the pasteboard black but the spread as well, leaving text grey
4. hitting crtl + alt + 0 no longer works on that page spread

Likely something simple, but striking me as random and new. Thank you.

[Peter Spier]

Try the export to .idml and resave as new .indd routine...

[Barb Binder]

Alternatively, salvage what you can from the spread (copy/paste on the pasteboard), delete the spread, add a new one and rebuild. If what you salvaged continues to cause a problem, then just re-create that spread.

 ~Barb

[Typothalamus]

Representing two years of work, this is a 400-page book with nearly a thousand images and a couple hundred footnotes on the spread and on the pasteboard. Recreating is possible, but an almost unfathomable task. I should have a better grasp of the alternatives and why this occurred. Again, the flaw is appearing on a single spread. Please let me know if there are any other important details I can provide. I believe you mean recreate just the one spread. Is the advisable path to do this first, then export and resave as Peter advised?

Also, any notes on how to protect from this in the future?

[leo.r]

to have the full info, what are your InDesign and operating system versions?

[Peter Spier]

I would do the eport and resave first -- less work if it is successful.

How often do you do a Save AS to a new name (even just to append a date or version number)? On  adocument that size I would do it at the end of every editing session, myself, to clean out minor corruption that can accumulate and reduce the file size from stored undo info that's no longer accessible or relevant, and it gives you a handy backup chanin in case something like this happens, so you only lose one session.

[Typothalamus]

In doing the export to .idml, once opened as an .idml about a third of the images were no longer linked and appeared as grey boxes. More problematic still, as a test, I relinked one, and the sizing it formerly had within the frame was lost. So, a lot of work potentially.

[Edit] Started to try Barb Binder's recommendation and see if just deleting the spread clears out the bug. Opted to first insert new spread before deleting old one. This produced more weird behavior – a big space between the new spread's pasteboard and the following one, then it froze. The .idml file was open at same time. Waited 15 min then ended process in task manager. Reopened and deleted originally troublesome spread and new one. This seems to have cleared things up and I want to work with this file, as the idml file lost links.

Is what I need to be doing now (correct me) is renaming this file, and what else, for protection? I lost the habit of renaming a file over months and did the most changes ever before saving, then the bug appeared. Will not be doing that in the future. System ran smooth till now. Thank you for the support.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Typothalamus

IDMLing is used to fix corrupted documents - looks like your documents unfortunately is.

As @Peter Spier mentioned - just doing Save preserves Undo history that is unavailable when you close document - but makes file bigger and slower.

Save As removes this overhead. 

So you can do Save every few minutes / after a lot of changes. 

Then Save As with a new name at least at the end of the day - so you can start "fresh" next day.

Your file will open quicker - InDesign doesn't have to analyse all the Undo history.

[Typothalamus]

Got it, yes – thank you. So even though the document is not showing signs of corruption anymore after deleting spreads and renaming, it should be  IDML'ed, yes? If so, this leaaves the issue mentioned about some photos turning to grey boxes, needing to be relinked, and then once done, they're showing different sizings within the frame than originally. Is there a solution?

And when IDML'ed, then convert them back to INDD?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Typothalamus

Do IDMLing - export as IDML, open, save with a new name as INDD. 

IDMLing is just one time operation - then you go back to INDD. 

Then fix all the problems - relink files, resize, etc.

Then work as normal - Save from time to time, Save As with a new name at the and of the day.

[Typothalamus]

It may take a full day to resize about 100 photos that didn't turn out properly in the IDML (grey boxes) and that when relinked are not cropped the same (does that make sense? They were very precisely adjusted/cropped) so to avoid this detailed readjusting, can I copy the photos from the original doc and paste in to the IDML'ed or new INDD one; or does that just transfer the corrupted element (potentially)? Looking to save myself the work. Thank you.

[Peter Spier]

That should be OK.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

[...] or does that just transfer the corrupted element (potentially)? [...] 

By @Typothalamus

Unfortunately, yes, it can.

[Peter Spier]

I think if copy/paste of a link from one file to another is successful it pretty much rules out real corruption.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I think if copy/paste of a link from one file to another is successful it pretty much rules out real corruption.

By @Peter Spier

But @Typothalamus wants to copy images that are grayed out after IDMLing - the ones that where potentially corrupted and now fixed? 

[Peter Spier]

It's hard to say why they changed size after .idml export. It seems to me that copy/paste should take only the link pointer and sizing information, so if the operation is successful there is little risk.

As an alternative, the frames can be replaced, the images linked anew, and the coordinates and szing values copied and pasted from the previous version -- that's just like typing numbers into the fields, but it will take considerably more time.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Peter Spier

But we don't know the reason why they are grayed out - and what exactly is copied?

So we can't be sure if copy&paste won't transfer corruption. 

After IDMLing - the old file shouldn't be used as a direct source - only "plain text contents" can be transferred - text or values. 

Size / location copied as single values, link - as a full file path, etc. 

No InDesign's native objects should be copied. 

So, as you've suggested:

As an alternative, the frames can be replaced, the images linked anew, and the coordinates and szing values copied and pasted from the previous version -- that's just like typing numbers into the fields, but it will take considerably more time.

---

But it could be easily automated. 

[Peter Spier]

I think we can agree to disagree on this. There's a long history of successfully "fixing" files by moving pages or copying objects from a misbehaving dcoument to a new one, but I agree that there is still a potential that a problem could be transferred, though that seems to be a rarity.

I think it boils down to how worried one is about it, and how much time you want to devote to certainty, and whether adding a short period to try the copy/paste is too much of a burden when added to the time to reconstruct if unsuccessful. For myself, I would copy/paste the elements that are showing or sizing incorrectly, then export a PDF to proof. At that point I would probably do another .idml and if that continues to show problems I would rebuild from scratch.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Peter Spier

Yes, you are right - it always depends on the situation.

[Typothalamus]

To be clear, by resized/recropped images, I mean images that were originally cropped by expansion with the Direct Selection tool, and not that the frame size was altered after IDML and trying to relink the lost ones that turned to grey. Did that make sense, or help explain events?

[Peter Spier]

That was my understanding.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Typothalamus

@Barb Binder is suggesting to recreate only this one spread - not the whole document.

[Typothalamus]

After getting along for awhile by following the recommended steps, it happened again (the blacked-out pages, text turning gray), but larger scale this time. Exported to IDML and now have over a dozen-plus pages that currently, suddenly, exhibit massive pasteboards of different random sizes. 

Not sure what else to try — have saved as an ID file and run though IDML again to fix. Is it possible the pasteboard on some spreads were inadvertantly resized by moving around large photos somehow? There are 140 links missing, I'm aware (yet to be updated as I debate what to use), in case that's driving some of this glitchiness/corruption.

(EDIT) Tried IDMLing several times, preceded by saves and name changes. Problems seem worse with each pass. Noticed that adding pages as necessary when I work seems to compound this.  And time it takes to open the new IDML doc is a very unusual ~10 min. May post separately if rescue is becoming a forgone conclusion and giant job of rebuilding from scratch is at hand. But how not to pass on corruption? PC is running a bit slower, photo gallery, oddly, freezes often but ample space. Invested in maintenance fixes, all the AVG services. Whatever this is, it's eating work. Trying now to IDML earlier versions missing some later refinements, deleting glitchy spreads and redoing portions. 

1. Should I take last version of work, delete all glitchy spreads first, then do IDML, or other way around: IDML first then delete gltiched pages before back to ID?
2. How likekly is it, or not, that numerous broken links are possibly affecting this?
3. I've never adjusted to using ID's "book" feature, keeping each chapter separate. How likely would taking that approach help?