Controlling spacing after in-line placed InDesign document

[Michael at Astec]

In a series of documents that I'm working on, there are short boilerplate paragraphs, which are separate InDesign files that are linked and embedded as anchored objects in the text. Everything seems to work as expected, except that there are large spaces (gaps) in the spacing between whenever one of these boilerplates is followed by regular text. These gaps are indicated in the image below by the magenta (pink) arrows on either side. 

I've been trying to determine what is affecting/controlling these gaps, because I want to make them smaller. I have eliminated the following:

• The spacing is not due to text wrap (text wrap is set to zero).  (The spacing between boilerplates is controlled by the text wrap, usually 0.125 inches. But I've set the final boilerplate text wrap to zero to reduce the space, but that is not working to reduce the space as desired.)
• It is not due to the paragraph "Space before" or "Space after" settings, both of which are zero.
• It is not due to the paragraph "Align to grid" option, which is set to none.

I can make the text gap more or less, but it only changes in whole line increments (basically, whatever the text leading is). In other words, the text will bump up or down by altering the text wrap, but only by whole lines. There is no fine-tuned control, such as to make it exactly 0.0625 inches or whatever. That is why I originally suspected that "Align to grid" was turned on, but it's not. 

I have a lot of experience with InDesign, but I cannot figure this one out. I would appreciate any tips!

(I"m sorry the text is all lorem ipsum, but I had to alter it for NDA/copyright/privacy reasons.)

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Might just be terminology, but are any of your paragraphs set to use Baseline Grid? That's different from the document grid and would cause exactly that "full line snap" you're reporting. It may also be a custom setting in the overall text frame you're using; hit Ctrl-B and check the settings for it. Both "use custom Baseline Grid" and the vertical alignment — set to Justified — might be in play.

[Michael at Astec]

Thanks, I hadn't thought about text frame options. But that doesn't seem to be it. The frame "Use Custom Baseline Grid" chechbox is disabled. 

As far as the paragraph themselves, I don't know of any setting that controls their baseline grid alignment other than Indents and Spacing > Align to Grid. Is there some other place where that is controlled?

It does not appear that the text is snapping to the baseline grid. Here it is with the grid turned on:

If it was on, I would expect the baseline of the first line of the first paragraph with bullet numbers to line up with with  blue baseline grid lines, and it doesn't.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

No, that's where it's controlled, and no, it doesn't look as if it's active.

Have you looked at the object settings/style for that inset box? In the Text Wrap pane, are any top and bottom space values entered? (I'd just the "Jump Object" setting for these, myself.)

[Michael at Astec]

Yes, that is what it is using. The "Jump Object" type of wrap, with zero offsets. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Michael at Astec

Can you share a sample of your INDD file?

[Michael at Astec]

Yes, I've attached it below. This does not contain the links, etc. But it should be enough to see the issue.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Yes, I've attached it below. This does not contain the links, etc. But it should be enough to see the issue.

By @Michael at Astec

Looks like a "normal" behaviour - I have the same on a new document...

Text below the anchored objects jumps like it's aligned to some hidden baseline...

Object on the right shifted down 0.25mm:

Text jumps one line below.

[Michael at Astec]

That is both helpful and disappointing! Seems like it might be a bug / unintended outcome.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Yes, the only thing that removes the space is un-anchoring that last graphic. Bizarre.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Yes, the only thing that removes the space is un-anchoring that last graphic. Bizarre.

By @James Gifford—NitroPress

Or setting negative bottom wrap:

@Michael at Astec - maybe this would be a solution for you?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Michael at Astec - maybe this would be a solution for you?

And then maybe you should play with ParaStyle options assigned to the anchored objects - PointSize / Leading / Space After?

[Michael at Astec]

Yes, I have tried the negative text wrap too. That, combined with "Space before" applied as needed to the text that follows seems to be the best option at this point. Unfortunately this seems to require manual overrides and fussing with each instance, due to varying heights of the embedded objects.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I am... absolutely baffled. Even setting all of the paragraphs in that stack to a generic type with no spacing does not remove that extra spacing. I don't know what is being missed here.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I am... absolutely baffled. Even setting all of the paragraphs in that stack to a generic type with no spacing does not remove that extra spacing. I don't know what is being missed here.

By @James Gifford—NitroPress

And it behaves exactly the same if you set "wrap around":

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

One more thing is a bit strange...

Bigger space after = smaller gap??

I've changed definition of this ParaStyle to PointSize = 6pt  and Leading to Auto (7.2 pt).

[Michael at Astec]

Yes, I saw that too. In fact, one strange thing is that if you open my sample document to page 2, and adjust the "Space before" on the first numbered bullet point that follows the anchored object, and keep bumping up the "space before" value using the arrow buttons, you'll see that the paragraph bounces around up and down, until it gets to a value of about 1.125 inches. After that it won't bounce up anymore. My theory is that this is related to the height of the anchored object.

[Michael at Astec]

After further testing, I've found this is (so far) the best way to get consistent spacing after an anchored object: 

1. Copy the height of the anchored object. (Click on it with the arrow pointer and copy the value from the H field.)
2. Click with the text tool inside the paragraph that follows, and in the "Space before" field paste the value from step 1, and type"+0.0625" after it, which will instruct InDesign to add 0.0625 inches to the value that was copied. This should set a small space that seems to be consistent.

[Michael at Astec]

We are still getting some variations in the spacing using that method. But since no better solution has turned up, that's our standard approach at this time.

[rob day]

Hi @Michael at Astec , Not sure if this helps, but it might be easier to control spacing if you use an Above Line rather than a Custom anchor.

With Above Line, the space above the anchored object is the Leading amount measured from the last line’s ascender to the top of the anchored object—the anchored object is treated as text so the top of the frame is its acsent line. If I include a return with 14pt leading after the anchor, the distance from the bottom of the anchor to the ascent of the next line is the 14pt leading amount.

So here all of the text, including the above line anchors have the Leading set to 14pt

I can set the Space Below of the paragraph’s above the anchor to the distance from the baseline to the acsender line of the font—about 9 points for this particular font

Now the spacing is optically even.

[Eugene Tyson]

This is exactly the way I would do it.

Anchored Objects have their own spacing options for before and after. 

[danielle_6303]

I wish I'd seen this come through! I'd love to have taken a stab at it. My suspicion is that there's a value set for "Space between paragraphs using the same style" that's lower than the space after a paragraph, since it's extra 'gappy' before a bullet or heading.