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A
André5E12
Participating Frequently
August 31, 2021
Question

Exporting interactive pdf (form) with fully embedded font

  • August 31, 2021
  • 3 replies
  • 11406 views

Hi there,

 

I´m creating a pdf form from InDesign.

As soon I export it as an "Adobe PDF (interactive) (*.pdf)" the required fonts won´t be embedded fully but only a subset of them. When using it on another computer without that font available, typing in the form gives you a completely different font as a result.

 

If I use "Adobe PDF (print) (*.pdf)" it works as configured: With Font-Subset setting configured to 0% the font is fully embedded, but this setting is not available for the "interactive" export.

 

As a workaround, I changed the font for all text fields before exporting from InDesign. Afterward I changed it back to the desired font in Acrobat. As soon I save the PDF with at least one character typed in such a field, the font gets embedded fully automatically.

The problem wiht this is, that it only works if the font is not used anywhere else in the document when exporting. So if you need the same font for a fixed piece of text (not an interactive form field) somewhere in the document but for a form field as well, I´m stuck.

 

As the font in one case is of an Barcode-type (Code 39), it is crucial this works. It is not to be expected that this font will be available on the computers the form will be used at. Due to IT regulations at the company the font will also not be made available on these.

 

  • So is this a bug?
  • Why can´t the/all font(s) set to be embedded for interactive, but just for print pdf?
  • As InDesign is (in my opinion) the way more accurate and professional application for creating forms, why is there a difference to embedding fonts in Acrobat?
  • Is there already a way to embed the entire font easily that I maybe just don´t know of, maybe by help of a different tool?

 

(Just to clarify in advance, as the font can be embedded in Acrobat it seems obvious that the required permissions for embedding are available.)

 

Any help is highly appreciated, thanks.

 

André

This topic has been closed for replies.

3 replies

A
André5E12Author
Participating Frequently
October 26, 2021

Posting the result just for the sake of completeness:

 

Problems remained:

  • As soon any font is used once anywhere on the form in InDesign, you are not able to embed it fully with Acrobat later. It will always remain an embedded subset.
  • If a font is only used within form-fields, this is not a big problem:
    You can change the font before exporting from InDesign and change it back to the desired one in Acrobat.
    This way you are able to embed it fully.
  • But if a font is also used for fixed text (not form-fields) on the document, this does not work.
    You could only create all texts (including fixed text) straight in Acrobat but not in InDesign - with the (very) reduced possibilities given. So this is not an option for me. 

 

 

As I was not able to create the desired form the way mentioned as a *.pdf, I had to swap to another technology.

 

We will now use a HTML/CSS based layout that will be filled with data dynamically.

This need to be done by software developers now, but I hope my knowledge should be enough for still editing the layout/CSS later on.

 

A service on the server will then generate a resulting pdf based on that CSS-driven layout, that can be stored and also sent to the printer.

 

As a result of our evaluation, the CSS-approach is more flexible and does match the given requirement much better.

However, I still don´t like if programs behave differently when doing the same thing - espacially if they are made from one manufacturer...

    TᴀW
    TᴀW
    Legend
    August 31, 2021

    I don't know why Adobe's implementation of applying a font to a form field in InDesign doesn't work as it does in Acrobat with regards embedding. It is a little strange.

    I have a commercial add-on called FormMagic for InDesign which allows you to specify the font for fields easily (without using the small dropdown in the Buttons and Forms panel) -- in the same way that you apply a font to any text in InDesign.

    Then, with a single click in Acrobat, all the font info and formatting is recreated in Acrobat, so fonts are embedded properly using Acrobat's own mechanism to do so.

    It's free for short forms, so you may want to see if it solves your problem:  https://www.id-extras.com/products/formmagic/

    Ariel

      A
      André5E12Author
      Participating Frequently
      August 31, 2021

      Thanks.

       

      I tried using the script but it doesn´t help me out of the situation.

      No font can be embedded this way.

      The colour of one text is even (wrongly) changed.

       

      Beside this, even the free version forces me to register an eMail address for promotion purposes and doesn´t execute otherwise.

      So I can not recommend this one. However, it was worth trying.

      TᴀW
      TᴀW
      Legend
      August 31, 2021

      Hi Andre,

      If the font has embedded permissions, it will indeed be embedded this way.

      The color is preserved 100%, but of course, as you know, only RGB colours can be used for interactive PDF forms, so if you try to use CMYK, it will be converted by InDesign.

      You can opt out of any emails as soon as you receive the first one.

      I'll be happy to help if you're not managing to get it to work.

      The software is being used around the world, including by insurance companies and government offices worldwide.

      Thanks for trying it out!

      Willi Adelberger
      Community Expert
      Willi AdelbergerCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      August 31, 2021

      I would strongly recommend not to use other fonts for form fields than standard fonts. Fonts used in form fields must be complete available to all users who edit the forms:

       

      1.  Use the standard Acrobat fonts which are installed with all Acrobat Apps. This needs no embedding and it reduces the file size and the form will be compatible with all Acrobat versions and even some other readers.
      2. If you use it only local, as in a company you can additionally use the corporate fonts which are always available on any computer where this form is used.
      3. If you use some fance font and you want to use exactly this font you have to embedd it completely which has following problems:
        • The PDF file size may increase dramatically, depends on the size of the font.
        • Many fonts have tags which will hinder you to embedd the font complete and some even partially.
        • Some licences do not permit embedding, even if this is technically possible. Some do not permit embedding fonts for editing, which is necessary for forms. You could get letters from those fonts founderies with a high bill or from their attorneys with their fees if you use these fonts for forms.
        A
        André5E12Author
        Participating Frequently
        August 31, 2021

        Thanks for your reply.

         

        All understood and mostly known.

        The file size doesn´t really matter in this case (i. e. +3 to 4 MB when the Barcode-font is fully embedded by Acrobat is absolutely fine).

        So if the font is licenced and got the coressponding permissions, I don´t see a problem using it.

        But I get your point: "Be carefull and check the license properly."

         

        Editing and filling a form is two very different things.

        I don´t agree, that a user must have a font to be installed to fill in a form.

        A form must always provide anything it needs to be filled by itself and should never rely on anything special to be installed additionally.

        Basically the benefit of PDFs is to look exactly the same on any system. Why should this not apply to PDF forms?

         

        As I wrote, the barcode font can´t be distributed for other (not licensing) reasons in the company.

        There are also different locations of the company with their own restictions.

        In an ideal world at least our normal corporate text-fonts would be available on all computers using the form - but in reallity they are not.

         

        • How can I create a barcode from the input filled in a form field inside a PDF?
        • Why is full font embedding possible in Acrobat and in InDesign using the PDF (print) export, but not using the PDF (interactive) export?
        Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
        Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
        Legend
        September 2, 2021

        Hi,

         

        I´ve read about fonts in PDF from Dov Issacs and others here and elsewhere.

        And yes, you can find many explanations why you should not use it like that (embed a font for beeing used inside a form).

        And yes, it is easier just to go the safe way and use default fonts etc.

        Absolutely no doubt about that!

         

        But unfortunately what I´m triying to do doesn´t match that.

        I´m not trying to make impossible things work. I just want an available feature (fully embedded font) to work seamlessly across two applications (Acrobat/InDesign) of the same manufacturer (Adobe). It is almost irrelevant or up to my creativity what I want to achieve by using a feature of a program - isn´t it? So what is wrong about that? 

         

        However, if this would be absolutely against any principle of PDF, why is it possible at all to embedd an entire font? If the general idea would be, that the generic font is always available on the machine editing it, you would never need to embed more than a subset (exactly the characters used in the document) and that would also be true for print not only forms.

         

        The arguments about making sure each and any character is included is one more kind of a "finding reasons" thing - if you know what I mean:

        It is very unelikely, that you will use the same form for such many different languages as you suggest.

         

        As a conclusion this all suggest PDF forms are not to be used as any kind of form document.

        Why? Because:

        • Any form need to be filled by a user, with at least requirements as possible
        • Forms should always look the same, no matter where you open them. This is esspecially true when it comes to tight space for several fields and another font would make the input not to fit the field.
        • Users in many cases are not tech-expierenced or won´t have the rights (IT-wise) and will strugle to install fonts.

         

        So at last, I was just trying to make best use of the available features of Acrobat/PDF and was wondering, why I just couldn´t get it running the same way via InDesign.

        Obviously, creating a document/PDF/form via InDesign is indeed much more comfortable, acurate and professional as straight from Acrobat.

         

        As I may not be capable to solve the problem, I´m basically left with the following options:

         

        1. Export from InDesign as PDF (interactive) + replace any fonts in form-fields that are not used in another text with a dummy-font and backwards in Acrobat (effort OK) + remove any form-fields that are using fonts used in another text an recreate that field manually from scratch in Acrobat (effort hight and needs to be redone after evere change in InDesign)
        2.  Giving the Script mentioned by TaW another run.
        3.  Move away from from PDF for this. Possibly switching to some kind of CSS controlled Web-form. There are no problems with embedding fonts on the server for this. However the idea of having a simple file-based document is done than. Changes to the document can only be done by developers then.

        quote

        I just want an available feature (fully embedded font) to work seamlessly across two applications (Acrobat/InDesign) of the same manufacturer (Adobe). It is almost irrelevant or up to my creativity what I want to achieve by using a feature of a program - isn´t it? So what is wrong about that? 

        By @André5E12

         

        You're forgetting that the font itself can be by another company, not Adobe. Even fonts from https://fonts.adobe.com/  are mostly from other manufacturers.

         

        Embedding is controlled mainly by the font owner's copyright and restrictions about the use of the font.

         

        It's not so easy!

         

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