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Question

Exporting interactive pdf (form) with fully embedded font

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
August 31, 2021
3 replies
11406 views

Hi there,

I´m creating a pdf form from InDesign.

As soon I export it as an "Adobe PDF (interactive) (*.pdf)" the required fonts won´t be embedded fully but only a subset of them. When using it on another computer without that font available, typing in the form gives you a completely different font as a result.

If I use "Adobe PDF (print) (*.pdf)" it works as configured: With Font-Subset setting configured to 0% the font is fully embedded, but this setting is not available for the "interactive" export.

As a workaround, I changed the font for all text fields before exporting from InDesign. Afterward I changed it back to the desired font in Acrobat. As soon I save the PDF with at least one character typed in such a field, the font gets embedded fully automatically.

The problem wiht this is, that it only works if the font is not used anywhere else in the document when exporting. So if you need the same font for a fixed piece of text (not an interactive form field) somewhere in the document but for a form field as well, I´m stuck.

As the font in one case is of an Barcode-type (Code 39), it is crucial this works. It is not to be expected that this font will be available on the computers the form will be used at. Due to IT regulations at the company the font will also not be made available on these.

So is this a bug?
Why can´t the/all font(s) set to be embedded for interactive, but just for print pdf?
As InDesign is (in my opinion) the way more accurate and professional application for creating forms, why is there a difference to embedding fonts in Acrobat?
Is there already a way to embed the entire font easily that I maybe just don´t know of, maybe by help of a different tool?

(Just to clarify in advance, as the font can be embedded in Acrobat it seems obvious that the required permissions for embedding are available.)

Any help is highly appreciated, thanks.

André

This topic has been closed for replies.

A

André5E12Author

Participating Frequently

Posting the result just for the sake of completeness:

Problems remained:

As soon any font is used once anywhere on the form in InDesign, you are not able to embed it fully with Acrobat later. It will always remain an embedded subset.
If a font is only used within form-fields, this is not a big problem:
You can change the font before exporting from InDesign and change it back to the desired one in Acrobat.
This way you are able to embed it fully.
But if a font is also used for fixed text (not form-fields) on the document, this does not work.
You could only create all texts (including fixed text) straight in Acrobat but not in InDesign - with the (very) reduced possibilities given. So this is not an option for me.

As I was not able to create the desired form the way mentioned as a *.pdf, I had to swap to another technology.

We will now use a HTML/CSS based layout that will be filled with data dynamically.

This need to be done by software developers now, but I hope my knowledge should be enough for still editing the layout/CSS later on.

A service on the server will then generate a resulting pdf based on that CSS-driven layout, that can be stored and also sent to the printer.

As a result of our evaluation, the CSS-approach is more flexible and does match the given requirement much better.

However, I still don´t like if programs behave differently when doing the same thing - espacially if they are made from one manufacturer...

TᴀW

Legend

I don't know why Adobe's implementation of applying a font to a form field in InDesign doesn't work as it does in Acrobat with regards embedding. It is a little strange.

I have a commercial add-on called FormMagic for InDesign which allows you to specify the font for fields easily (without using the small dropdown in the Buttons and Forms panel) -- in the same way that you apply a font to any text in InDesign.

Then, with a single click in Acrobat, all the font info and formatting is recreated in Acrobat, so fonts are embedded properly using Acrobat's own mechanism to do so.

It's free for short forms, so you may want to see if it solves your problem: https://www.id-extras.com/products/formmagic/

Ariel

A

André5E12Author

Participating Frequently

Thanks.

I tried using the script but it doesn´t help me out of the situation.

No font can be embedded this way.

The colour of one text is even (wrongly) changed.

Beside this, even the free version forces me to register an eMail address for promotion purposes and doesn´t execute otherwise.

So I can not recommend this one. However, it was worth trying.

Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

Legend

@André5E12 @Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

Ok, here's a clearer attempt (and I agree that that screenshot did not look like Barbedor).

The font in this PDF is a free one called "Orange Juice". I've used it for the text field in the attached PDF. The blue rectangle is an editable text field in this PDF, so if you open the PDF with Adobe Reader, you should be able to type with the font Orange Juice. I'm also attaching a screenshot that shows what the font looks like.

Interested to see if this works. As far as I know, it does. You should have full access to Orange Juice in this text field even though it is not installed on your system.

Ok OK, Ariel. You win...again! <grin>

Always impressed with your knowledge and scripts.

Is this done with your Forms Magic plug-in? If so, please post the link to it here.

Some questions about this theory:

Yes, I was able to type, but that particular font has a limited character set, 300+ or so. The website doesn't give a detailed look at the entire character set. So a user with a gylph outside the font's character set will find the form field revert to one of Acrobat's standard fonts for that glyph.
If a font with a larger glyph set is used, then, of course, the PDF's file size increases tremendously. Does your script always embed the entire glyph set? Or could it be subsetted, such as by Unicode codepoint range / languages?
Using Orange Juice as a model, how does this embedding affect the font manufacturer's copyright and pricing? See https://www.brittneymurphydesign.com/downloads/orange-juice/ Murphy Design sets the price at $5 for a desktop font, but that doesn't include the cost of embedding rights. Quoted from her website:
- "Unless you need to embed the font in an application, website, electronic publication, editable pdfs, or use it on a server, the desktop license will work great for you."
So that means we'll need an EPUB or other digital document license, which is becoming a standard practice in the font industry. Her fee: $5, but it's for each PDF that has the font embedded, rather than a one-time fee covering all PDFs you'll ever make.
What's murky is what happens when a form PDF with her embedded font gets distributed to many people (as happens with forms). Will the fee then be $5 per PDF form, or per person who fills out the form?

All of this reminds me to use open source fonts and bypass this copyright and embedding stuff.

Thanks, Ariel!

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |

Willi Adelberger

Community Expert

I would strongly recommend not to use other fonts for form fields than standard fonts. Fonts used in form fields must be complete available to all users who edit the forms:

Use the standard Acrobat fonts which are installed with all Acrobat Apps. This needs no embedding and it reduces the file size and the form will be compatible with all Acrobat versions and even some other readers.
If you use it only local, as in a company you can additionally use the corporate fonts which are always available on any computer where this form is used.
If you use some fance font and you want to use exactly this font you have to embedd it completely which has following problems:
- The PDF file size may increase dramatically, depends on the size of the font.
- Many fonts have tags which will hinder you to embedd the font complete and some even partially.
- Some licences do not permit embedding, even if this is technically possible. Some do not permit embedding fonts for editing, which is necessary for forms. You could get letters from those fonts founderies with a high bill or from their attorneys with their fees if you use these fonts for forms.

A

André5E12Author

Participating Frequently

Thanks for your reply.

All understood and mostly known.

The file size doesn´t really matter in this case (i. e. +3 to 4 MB when the Barcode-font is fully embedded by Acrobat is absolutely fine).

So if the font is licenced and got the coressponding permissions, I don´t see a problem using it.

But I get your point: "Be carefull and check the license properly."

Editing and filling a form is two very different things.

I don´t agree, that a user must have a font to be installed to fill in a form.

A form must always provide anything it needs to be filled by itself and should never rely on anything special to be installed additionally.

Basically the benefit of PDFs is to look exactly the same on any system. Why should this not apply to PDF forms?

As I wrote, the barcode font can´t be distributed for other (not licensing) reasons in the company.

There are also different locations of the company with their own restictions.

In an ideal world at least our normal corporate text-fonts would be available on all computers using the form - but in reallity they are not.

How can I create a barcode from the input filled in a form field inside a PDF?
Why is full font embedding possible in Acrobat and in InDesign using the PDF (print) export, but not using the PDF (interactive) export?

Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

Legend

Editing and filling a form is two very different things.
By @André5E12

They are two forms of editing a PDF.

I don´t agree, that a user must have a font to be installed to fill in a form.

Over the past 5+ years, Adobe and other font manufacturers have adjusted the way fonts are handled. Software has become more capable of "policing" the use of fonts.

Users have always needed to have the fonts on their system to do any type of editing, including filling in form fields and editing the actual content.

Viewing a PDF, however, only requires that the font be embedded into the PDF. And when it's not embedded, Acrobat uses one of their standards fonts that's installed with all versions of Acrobat, such as their versions of Helvetica and Times New Roman, IIRC. These are specially designed by Adobe to be swapable with the original font and still maintain the readability of the text content.

These are the same fonts you see in a form field's font dialogue. Therefore, folks above are recommending to stick with the default fonts in the form field's Properties dialogue. They work. Seamlessly.

A form must always provide anything it needs to be filled by itself and should never rely on anything special to be installed additionally.

Basically the benefit of PDFs is to look exactly the same on any system. Why should this not apply to PDF forms?

Question: how could it be possible to include enough characters of a font to accommodate all of the glyphs in the world's languages? Or even just Latin-based European languages?

Example, take the diaeresis over a lowercase i, as in “naïve”. Can you guarantee that the diaeresis ï is available in your embedded font? How about any of the other several dozen accented characters in European languages? Or Cyrillic? Or Armenian? Chinese, Japanese, Korean?

It's not practical for us forms designers to ensure that the worlds' glyphs are available.

Search these forums for comments by retired Adobe engineer Dov Issacs and memorize what he says. He spoke innumberable times about how fonts work, both in regular documents and forms.

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |

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