Extra step for Bullets and Numbers in text block to be converted to outline.

[forebrain]

Why must bullets and numbers keyed in as part of a text block in InDesign be converted to text before covering to path, unlike in Illustrator? The User Manual teaches how it is done but not the rationale for this extra step.

[winterm]

Covering to path? What is it? Converting to outlines?

Bullets / numbers applied through the bulleting / numbering option are not text actually, that's why you need to convert it in order to retain on outlining.

In general, you should never oh never outline live text in InDesign, except a few special cases. If your printer requires this, sounds like they're a few generations behind in their facilities.

If you can't switch to better printer, at least read this old but still valid post:

https://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way.php

[SJRiegel · Accepted solution]

If you printer requires it, (and you don't have the option of changing printers), converting text to outlines can now be done in Acrobat without all of the extra steps. 

https://indesignsecrets.com/outlining-fonts-the-2016-edition.php

[winterm]

12 posts… going in circles. Does anyone here ever guessed outlining text globally is a workflow, less than terrible? No? That's surprise. Where is OP? Feels like a wedding party without bride. Gets boring…

[forebrain]

Covering to path? = converting to path?

Sorry, typo error.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Covering to path? = converting to path?

Sorry, typo error.

By @forebrain

ROTLF 🙂 the thread is more than 4 years old 😉

[John Mensinger]

There is little point in comparing the type engines of Illustrator and InDesign They are vastly different.

For that matter, you shouldn't be converting to outlines either.

[BobLevine]

Just adding my $0.02 that time would be better spent finding a competent printer than trying to figure out how to convert perfectly good type to outlines.

[SJRiegel]

BobLevine  wrote

time would be better spent finding a competent printer

While this is certainly true, not every designer has control over who will do the printing.

In my case, the purchasing department sources the printing, and they are cost-driven (as long as the final print looks right). If a printer that purchasing is using wants outlines, then we give them outlines.

[BobLevine]

Which means educating the purchasing departments who are pretty much clueless as to the potential issues with workflows that demand that.

[SJRiegel]

BobLevine  wrote

Which means educating the purchasing departments who are pretty much clueless as to the potential issues with workflows that demand that.

They are well aware -- we have had several discussions about it. They are dealing with ordering printed packaging and support materials for thousands of products from a variety of printers, and they will not change printers over this, so we live with it.

[Scott Falkner]

SJRiegel  wrote

BobLevine   wrote

time would be better spent finding a competent printer

While this is certainly true, not every designer has control over who will do the printing.

In my case, the purchasing department sources the printing, and they are cost-driven (as long as the final print looks right). If a printer that purchasing is using wants outlines, then we give them outlines.

Your purchasing department is not saving money. They are making you work extra to convert text to outlines and introducing a major source of error which would require reprints or accepting output they don’t like.

Here are some of the attributes you lose when converting text to outlines:

1. Underlines
2. Strikethroughs
3. Bullets and numbering
4. Paragraph rules
5. Paragraph shading
6. Paragraph borders
7. Table rules and fills
8. Text frame fills and strokes

Also, if you have text with a stroke applied the stroke gets messed up when applied to compound paths. In other words, it can be literally impossible to convert text to outlines and make the file look the same.

Converting to outlines means unneccesarily overcoming all these problems, which means finding each of them in the first place. Miss one and you might need to reprint the job or catch it in a proof and resubmit with the error fixed, wasting more of your time and adding a round of proofs. Or it could train you not to use these features because of the added work they require. Either way this is terrible workflow and you will do everyone a favour by trying to correct it.

Instead submit a PDF. If the printer still requires outlined text you can do that on export and all text (even bullets and numbering) will be outlined, yet all other attributes listed above will be unaffected.

https://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way.php

[SJRiegel]

Scott

You are preaching to the converted.

I am quite aware of the problems that come from outlining in InDesign, so we never do it there. We always submit the art as PDFs, and when outlines are still required, we do use Acrobat Preflight to create them in the PDF.

I would prefer to never have to do outlines, but that is our reality.

I'm certainly not arguing in favor of this as the ideal workflow, but I have been beating this drum for years, so I don't expect anything to change.

[Scott Falkner]

Sorry for assuming. I didn’t check sigs and assumed I was responding to OP.

[SJRiegel]

No problem.

Your list of potential issues will be a good reference for anyone who finds this thread later.

[Peter Villevoye]

The rationale is that the teams who work on these applications are pretty autonomous. Let's say they don't call each so much to see if they're working on the same thing. They do exchange features now and then, and sometimes corporate stuff is being imposed. But apart from that, they don't share much technology under the hood. After all, Illustrator dates from the mid-eighties, and InDesign from around 2000.