Interactive features don't or rarely work

[Viktoria24203226e6hj]

Hi,

So this may be a vague post but I don't have the information about other people's computers.

Why is that, that Adobe Indesign has quite a lot of interactive features, yet majority of them don't work after export.

I'll try and mention a few examples.
Some features don't even work on my computer. Some work for certain people and some don't for others.

All viewing from either macintosh or PC.

I have been trying to make a personal document interactive and I have encountered issues with the following features.

- created button to zoom in/out - randomly works for some people randomly it isn't

- created next & previous page buttons - same issue

- hyperlinked Linkedin link to an icon - goes to 404 page - using same url in browser works
- hyperlinked Linkeding link to text - for some works for some it isn't

- linking button to page inside the document doesn't do anything in some cases

- bookmarking and linking doesn't do anything
- tried to create 'on click' enlarging elements animation - after export it exits the pdf on play

and some more I can't recall.

This is quite maddening as I follow instructions from youtube and google and yet it is very random.
Why have features in a software that are not optimised at all?

[JR Boulay]

In what format do you export your documents?
Whether PDF, ePUB or HTML, the way interactivity works depends on the software used to read the document, not on the platform or the document itself.

[Viktoria24203226e6hj]

Hi, 
I export it as a pdf as I plan to send it in email and many places request a pdf to be shared.

I understand the concept that certain features work on certain platforms, but that is exactly my problem besides many of them STILL not working in PDF that was designed for PDF.
Not everyone has a pdf viewer either.

I did try to pay attention to the categories:

But as a test I tried to apply certain animations and YET those did work when viewing in Acrobat reader.
After realising some animations don't work that way I just skipped using them of course that are not meant for PDF only. But the First set of 'animations' should work everywhere? It's not categorised into a certain platform only like Publish online and PDF only. 
PDF only ones don't tend to work for me (not all) and other people I know they use Acrobat.

So this is just a wish that this tool was more optimised.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

It's not a platform issue, as in Mac or Windows. 

Did you check the settings in Acrobat Pro under the "Prepare Form" tools?

[Viktoria24203226e6hj]

What settings particularly? 
Why do I have to make sure that certain settings are set to something in Acrobat? Why isn't this compatible with Indesign once we are exporting files from Indesign as a PDF then use acrobat (those who have it) to view the files?
If I do that, How will this make sure that other people without Acrobat and with Acrobat will be able to view the document as it was designed?

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

The actions. If you want to message me (click on my name), I'll be happy to look at your file. 

The only thing you can make sure of is that Acrobat (Reader, Standard, or Pro) users will view as designed. You cannot guarantee for any other software. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

@Viktoria24203226e6hj — not to be redundant, but maybe the answers here haven't added up to a coherent picture, so let me sum up.

PDF is not a well-regulated standard, and it's a long time since it has been. Every maker of every creation,. editing and viewing app is free to interpret the standard as they like, and add, subtract and modify features. Outside of the "canonical" Adobe Acrobat and (generally) PDF export from Adobe apps, most PDF players do create modified, limited or flat-out broken tools.

Nowhere is this more prevalent than in the general spectrum of PDF viewers; although every OS, every mobile device and every browser will read PDF files, most are limited to simple flat page display and basic links... and anything more complex is a complete crapshoot. Some, like most browser readers, aren't even reliable with flat pages.

The Adobe tools contain many, many interactive tools, most of which are legacy and now compartmented if not niche, as @Barb Binder summed up. Just because you can build an ID doc with them doesn't mean you can export them successfully to ANY given platform or format with interactive features intact. That's especially true of PDF because of its chaotic, sloppy history of implementation.

There is nothing you can do about this. There is nothing (realistic) Adobe can do about it. You can only work around the many limitations of what end-point reader your audience is likely to use, and limit the features to what that reader supports... which is not much.

There is no good, universal "interactive document" format. I'm not sure there ever was, and with the demise of Flash, the general progression of the field/format/concept got completely derailed.

Pro suggestion: if you want to create a highly interactive document, form, brochure, newsletter, whatever, one that can be opened successfully by the widest range of end recipients... use HTML/CSS in one form or another.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

To add to @James Gifford—NitroPress missive, Adobe does not control the PDF standard as they released it in 2008. That's one reason why you see such discrepancy between PDF program capibilities. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

That wasn't a missive. That was an executive summary. You KNOW when I post a missive. 😄

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

I looked it up before using the word as I didn't want to insult. Everything was a slight variation of an official , formal , or long  letter.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

No insult taken, really. I do issue missives. Also screeds, polemics and plain old rants. But the above was just an attempt to pull together the different viewpoints that didn't seem to be completely clear to the OP. It is a murky, messy situation and goes against the general, and largely faulty, sense of what PDF actually is these days.

Collateral topic: why hasn't ANYONE stepped into the breach with a good digital doc format in the last 10+ years? PDF is irretrievably shattered, EPUB is obsessed with polishing the door handles on a '78 Yugo, Word/DOCX long ago stopped being a reliable distribution format, and even HTML simply hasn't gotten any easier to create and manage. The opportunity is wide-open, but I guess in the age of AI wonders simple things like doc formats just don't matter any more. Except to the marketing world trying to cram stuff into our email.

(There. THAT'S a missive. 🙂 )

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

One thing I find to be consistently misunderstood is that interactivity is dependent on the host platform and format... not on the tools used to create it. You can build interactive and multimedia elements in a dozen ways, but in the end you have to export to (1) a document format that supports them that is then (2) opened and read in a reader/viewer/platform that supports those features.

The combination, especially (2), is just not as common as most seem to believe. While interactive "pages" surround us, most are part of full-featured apps, or docs tailored to a particular underlying platform or reader. There are very, very few options for creating a standalone document that can be circulated and put on its razzle-dazzle show for all, or even most readers. PDF is not one of them. Neither is EPUB.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Are you or the PDF users using either Acrobat Pro or Acrobat Reader?

Windows used the Edge browser by default; Mac uses Preview. I would next expect either of those to work properly. 

If using an Acrobat product, the following should work:

• Zoom should work but I would use Go To Page View in Acrobat--it remembers the zoom level too.
• Next/Previous buttons should work.
• Be sure you are copying the entire hyperlink from a browser to paste in; browsers don't show the entire link by default, but if you click on them, it will. Don't type it in.
• For linking within the document, either text or page, use Go To Page View instead.
• Use a TOC for hyperlinked bookmarks. 
• What animation did you use? They don't work in a PDF. 

Finally, how did you export the PDF?

[Barb Binder]

Hi @Viktoria24203226e6hj:

It's a very frustrating situation:

1. Some of InDesign's interactive features were designed to be used with Flash which reached end of life at the end of 2020.
2. Some of InDesign's interactive features work well in Publish Online or a fixed layout ePub, but are not supported in PDFs.
3. Some interactive features work as expected in Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Acrobat Reader but not in 3rd party PDF readers.
   • We can't blame Adobe for that: the 3rd party reader companies are in charge of how compatible they want to be with PDF standards. @Dave Creamer of IDEAS mentioned two examples, there are plenty more.
   • It's also hard to control random people accessing our files who want to decide how they read a PDF and have no idea about the lack of compatibility that some of the readers deliver. You might test this theory by asking "those it works for and those it doesn't" what applications they are using to access your files. 

Admitedly, the post below is meant as a sales tool to help promote in5 from Ajar Productions (by all accounts an amazing product but not one that I use) but it also offers a useful list of what does and doesn't work using Publish Online, fixed layout ePubs and then using their product to export to HTML5, while simultaneously acknowledging the limitation of trying to create a reliable interactive PDF.

https://ajarproductions.com/blog/2018/03/26/interactive-pdf-is-dead-heres-what-you-can-create-from-i....

This is another sales tool (sorry!) but it offers another look at the same dilemma. 

https://www.maglr.com/blog/digital-publishing-and-the-end-of-the-interactive-pdf

The bottom line is an interactive PDF is probably not going to be way to go for you. You might want to take a look at Publish Online, which is included within Adobe InDesign or HTML5.

FWIW, I created and continue to maintain an InDesign to interactive PDF that I use when teaching and it works great, but I know the limitations, I work within the limitations and use Acrobat or Acrobat Reader to display it to my students as we work through each class. It's a very controlled environment. 

~Barb

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

The bottom line, really, is that the only full-featured interactive document model that is easy to create, easy to deliver and reliable for the largest potential user base is HTML.

Starting from InDesign, the only good way to get there is using In5. Publish Online is a proprietary solution dependent on Adobe's hosting, and direct HTML export is at best a rough-draft option that will need further refinement using web/HTML/CSS skills.

At least we no longer have to contend with browser wars. 🙂

[JR Boulay]

"James Gifford—NitroPress There is nothing you can do about this. There is nothing (realistic) Adobe can do about it. You can only work around the many limitations of what end-point reader your audience is likely to use, and limit the features to what that reader supports..."

This is not true, Adobe reacted a long time ago.

The easiest way is to place your interactive PDF in a PDF Portfolio.
Otherwise you can use these great tips (copy-paste the URLs in Google Translate if you can't read French):
https://www.abracadabrapdf.net/ressources-et-tutos/js-et-formulaires-ressources/forcer-utilisation-p...
https://www.abracadabrapdf.net/ressources-et-tutos/js-et-formulaires-ressources/forcer-utilisation-p...

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Um, I fail to see how putting a PDF in a PDF portfolio solves any of the problems with a vast, even greatly majority installation of third-party, second-rate readers and a gulf of misunderstanding on the point by some majority of PDF audience.

That PDF can kinda-sorta be optimized for any given user base is not the point. It's that outside of fairly carefully controlled management, the universal/all platform/any reader nature of the format was long ago corrupted. And if there's anyone or any entity that can put that omelet back in the shells, I'm not sure who they are.

The mistake, IMHO, was releasing PDF as an open and unmanaged standard instead of a controlled one. If, for example, Microsoft wanted to do a crappy, browser-based, speed-focused stripper version... fine. But it wouldn't get a compliance badge from a standards group. So now most users have no idea that there are different viewers etc.  — all problems are just Adobe/PDF's fault.

[JR Boulay]

"I fail to see how putting a PDF in a PDF portfolio solves any of the problems with a vast, even greatly majority installation of third-party, second-rate readers and a gulf of misunderstanding on the point by some majority of PDF audience."

Create a PDF Portfolio and try to open it with a program other than Acrobat (or Foxit), and you'll understand right away.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

But the question is not "how do you make PDF display perfectly," but "how do you make a document universally accessible, especially outside an idealized reader platform like desktop Acrobat, Publish Online, etc." The portfolio is simply another entity that needs to be opened in genuine Acrobat... and if we could enforce that for the entire real world — browser, email, non-techy and Adobe-hater users included — then there wouldn't be any need for this question or discussion.

I could argue that INDD is a perfect universal document format... all that's needed is for all users to have InDesign to open it. But again, that's not really the question, or the point. PDF is supposed to be a universal format, and for some vast percentage of the user base, it only gets partway there. It was once there, but the dilution and corruption of the installed reader base (not to mention other corrosion like the demise of Flash) erased that universality for anything but the simplest docs. Adding another layer of specific, "validated" reader/app to the mix is useful, I'm sure... but not a return to that era of universal compatibility.

[JR Boulay]

"how do you make a document universally accessible, especially outside an idealized reader platform..."

No such type of document exists, so there is no answer.

"PDF is supposed to be a universal format, and for some vast percentage of the user base, it only gets partway there. It was once there, but the dilution and corruption of the installed reader base"

PDF was never supposed to be universal, it's portable (PDF: Portable Document Format).
The only time it could be considered universal by some was in the 90s, when Adobe Acrobat Reader was the default PDF reader pre-installed on all Macs, all PCs/Windows and when mobile devices didn't exist.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

PDF was never supposed to be universal, it's portable (PDF: Portable Document Format)

By JR Boulay

Okay. Well, that's a... nuanced answer.

In the end, I've gotten the responses I would expect from a pro user base (here and over in Expert's) that see PDF as an extension of graphics production techniques.

But out there is a 10-100X larger user base of secretaries, admin assistants and marketing types who see it — the same format, note — as something completely different and wouldn't know a color model from their Aunt Carol. If PDF is not a universal format, was not intended to be a universal format, and needs no replacement or alternative, I'll leave it at that.

In any case, the focus, if not the goalpost, has moved around quite a bit in this thread and it's not really the right topic or venue to continue.