Outline text with bullets & numbering

Is there any way to stop other components from disappearing when converting a file to outlines in Indesign. I can see the fix for bullets, but what about underlines, tables and text that is on top of anchored filled-in boxes. All my artwork must be changed to outlines to prevent any interference with the files, as my artwork is regulated and approved before sending the printers. Will Adobe ever fix this problem?

I cant believe how moderators in the forum belittle genuine questions. Yes, we need to be able to convert fonts to paths and no, this is not a poor workflow.

There are many good reasons we need to convert, one big one is Adobe's poor font management in general. Very often cloud fonts just get dropped, so to convert to paths is the only way to "lock in" a design, unless you use Google fonts (which in general are much more reliable than Adobes chaotic font licensing). I was even told by one moderator to do just that if I want to make sure my designs don't get altered because of the Adobe font issues. The fact that moderators now say this is bad workflow just shows how these things run around in circles at Adobe. Just fix the thing for crying out loud and stop trying to cover up a bug.

I would really appreciate if moderators would focus on a good answers, rather than spill out bad vibes and do so multiple times in a single thread. I mean seriously, how many moderators have to repeat the concept of a "bad workflow", which in this case doesnt even apply.

The fact of the matter is that Adobe does not allocate enough dev time to apps like InDesign. Development there has been very slow and bugs just get carried over from one version to the next. 

I really hope Adobe fixes this.

I found this query and the responses to it both startling and disturbing for three reasons:

1. This is a clear bug in InDesign connected with a commonly used workflow that has not been fixed, nearly five years later! Why is it considered acceptable that Acrobat Pro outlines text properly and InDesign continues to have this error?

2. I am mystified by the assumptions behind the claim that outlining text is poor workflow. I find this to be a very common requirement from my corporate clients. Their main reasoning is that they may want to reproduce the artwork in its final form down the track. If the text is not outlined, the assumption is that everyone has access to the same installed fonts and that Adobe CC will always have the same fonts available through Adobe Fonts. This isn't the case, and large corporates sensibly protect their creative assets from arbitrary changes to font licencing arrangements.

3. Finally, this thinking assumes that Adobe is the only game in town for creative workflow and that it is fine to assume that everyone is working within Adobe's walled garden – this isn't true today, and could change significantly over time. It is perfectly reasonable for your clients to ask that you future-proof your final art for them so that they are protected against changes at Adobe or in the wider industry that are not in their control.

Here is the Correct Anser to the Question

You first need to convert the bullets into text – after that, you can outline the text without the bullets/numbers disappearing.

Select the text box -> Type -> Bullet and Numbered lists -> Convert Bullet and Numbers to text

After that, you can use the normal command + shift + O.

Not super smooth, but at least it works!

Why isn't there an answer to this question?
I"ve been a design or creative director for 30 years now. Outlining text is a perfectly acceptable solution. Why is InDesign not outlining bullets? Those who say outlining text is bad practice are still living in the early 1990s and 2000s. Many printer request files this way.

Please provide an answer.

Hello ling87007791,

I too encountered an issue with outlining bullets in InDesign. Similar to you, I am working with a vendor that may or may not have access to the typefaces that I am using. Though 2 years after this initial post, in InDesign 2020 version 15.1.1, a solution a co-worker helped me find was to highlight all of the text, go into the text tab > bullets and numbering > convert bullets into text. This should now allow the bullets to be outlined.

Thank you Dov and Jeff!

I had to outline the text since my file contains a system font (which is not available on Windows) that can't be packaged. The last time I sent my PDF file to the printshop they somehow managed to change all the font, so I decided to outline everything.

Anyhow, it'd be very helpful if Indesign could outline bullets and numbering as part of the paragraph within one click.

Like the others who have responded to you, I will note that “outlining text” is an exceptionally poor workflow practice. The exceptions are:

(1)     You need to achieve some artistic effect with some limited text that cannot otherwise be achieved with other InDesign effects that work with text.

(2)     You need vectors for purposes of sending artwork to sign cutting or similar systems that cannot handle text as realized via fonts.

The fact that you are concerned about full paragraphs with bullets an numbering is indicative that neither of these situations are the case here.

Note that when you “outline text” you end up with a terribly bloated PDF file that (1) takes longer to display or print, (2) may yield blotchy overly-bold looking text, (3) is not searchable, and (4) cannot be edited in Acrobat (for text touchup). Other than that, it is real dandy!

However, if you really need to outline text (possibly because some dumb, Luddite print service provider “requires” this practice), the best way to do it is to not do it within InDesign - keep text “live” there - but to use Acrobat Pro Preflight's fixup to convert text to outlines. That will convert all text to outlines, including paragraph bullets and numbers.

          - Dov

Why you would like to outline any text is beyond me.

But if you must, try the following:

1. Select the Numbered or Bulleted paragraphs.
2. Under the Options menu of the Paragraph panel, choose either "Convert Numbering to Text" OR "Convert Bullets to Text."
3. Outline your text and the numbers or bullet will not disappear, they will be outlined.