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"Allow Document Pages to Shuffle" command counterintuitive?

Forum|Forum|6 years ago
July 25, 2019
3 replies
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BACKGROUND: I'm a technical communicator w/6-7 yrs experience, who currently writes install instructions for performance car accessories. I've worked mostly in Word (4-5 years) followed by PowerPoint (1+ yrs). But with the arrival of a 2nd writer about a year ago, we've adopted Adobe CC, and write our instructions in InDesign. Now I'm trying to deepen my knowledge of the platform by taking a course on Udemy.

I'm starting the section on working with pages, and am trying to grasp the "Allow to Shuffle" options. (I have not used them at all yet when creating content.)

My problem is, the "Allow Document Pages to Shuffle" command seems counterintuitive to me. When it is turned ON (checked), it constrains the layout to two-page spreads. When it is turned OFF (unchecked), it "allows" you to lay out pages in spreads of any length. "Allow" = CONSTRAINED; "Disallow" = FLEXIBLE.

I am aware that, while the "Allow Document Pages to Shuffle" command applies globally to the entire document, "Allow Selected Spread to Shuffle" only applies to the selected spread(s) -- and that the page numbers of the "selected spread(s)" are bracketed when the feature is "disallowed"/unchecked.

So I'm simply trying to understand THE THINKING BEHIND the "Allow Pages to Shuffle" command, so that if I ever need to resort to it someday, it'll make sense.

Someone make it click for me ... thanks much!

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Correct answer Barb Binder

Hi Steve. You wrote:

"Shuffle" is a shorthand way of saying, "Keep in paired (double-sided) pages"

At least, that seems to apply to "Allow PAGES to Shuffle."

"Allow SELECTED SPREADS to Shuffle" seems to be a somewhat different animal. Can you help me distinguish between them?

Hi Frank:

Let us know if you have further questions after reading the helpx file that Steve posted.

As a tech writer, this is not a feature you are likely to need in real life, unless perhaps you have a very wide illustration where it might make sense to have a page unfold into a larger size. I work regularly with tech writers using FrameMaker, and this has never come up, in my experience.

The more important take-away may be that if someone gives you a file to work on where the commands were disabled and the pages dragged around, you know know that rechecking them will restore the normal page behavior. We certainly get that question a lot on the forums.

~Barb

Frank in SpokaneAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your patient replies.

The helpx page was the first place I looked, but it wasn't scratching my "Allow to Shuffle" itch at first, so I came here. After reading through your responses a few times (while testing them in my "sandbox"), I got a bit of a better feel for what the commands seem to do.

Barb's right -- I'm not likely to use these commands in my current role, at my current employer. But it is helpful to at least know that they are there, and how moving pages & spreads behaves when either / both commands are selected or de-selected.

I'm satisfied with my present level of knowledge of these features -- even if I miss that Q on the test. ;-)

Peace out ...

B

Barb Binder

Adobe Expert

Hi Frank:

Which test are you taking? I don't recall anything coming up on the ACE exams on that topic, unless it was how to restore the normal spreads after someone changed them. And it's way too complex for the ACA exam.

~Barb

Frank in SpokaneAuthor

Participating Frequently

"ACE exams"

As in "Adobe Certified Expert"? Haha! No, nothing like that for me! (At least, I don't THINK so ... )

I simply meant the in-class quiz, and probably a final test at the end, for my Udemy class. And quite possibly the ACA ("Associate") exam.

But you raise Q: How would the "Allow to Shuffle" commands be considered "too complex" for the ACA exam? The Udemy instructor introduces it very early on, under the "Working With Pages" lesson. (And before "Advanced Page Techniques"!)

Jeff Witchel, ACI

Adobe Expert

Hi Frank,

I understand your confusion about this command. It's an issue I mention all the time in my InDesign classes.

Quite simply, it's my belief that Adobe misnamed the command. If it's "Allow Document Pages to Shuffle," why is it checked by default? If begs the question "How am I 'allowing' anything if it's already checked?"

The command should have been named "Document Pages Will Shuffle."

While the concept of "shuffling" is quite simple, its name helps make it quite confusing.

Just my 2¢!

Frank in SpokaneAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi Jeff. You said:

Quite simply, it's my belief that Adobe misnamed the command. If it's "Allow Document Pages to Shuffle," why is it checked by default? If begs the question "How am I 'allowing' anything if it's already checked?"

I may not have explained so well why I'm finding them confusing.

I don't begrudge Adobe their default settings (starting new docs off with both "Allow to Shuffle" commands checked). It's more that, with either of the commands switched OFF (unchecked), the layout seems to be way more "flexible" / malleable, whereas when both are turned ON (checked), the pages seem to reorder in a more automatic / predetermined fashion.

So that said, maybe your suggested "Document Pages Will Shuffle" understanding has some merit.

Probably the thing that's most confusing to me is the way that, when (either? both?) shuffles are turned OFF, the pages often split from their original 2-page spreads. The way in which that happens seems -- seems -- rather arbitrary. But I'm sure it's just a manifestation of this n00b fiddling with stuff he doesn't fully understand yet! (GIGO, right?!)

I'll keep experimenting with my "sandbox," but if you can explain the distinctions between allowing page and spread shuffling, that would help.

BobLevine

Adobe Expert

There has been more than one user confused by this setting. All I can tell you is that at this point you’re wasting energy on it.

It has been this way since day one. There is, quite simply, no way to change it now as it would cause a massive amount of confusion for users that, despite a less than stellar name, understand exactly how it works.

Allowing the pages to shuffle keeps things in nice neat two-page spreads when you add a page. That is why the default is on.

B

Barb Binder

Adobe Expert

Hi Frank:

When both are checked, you can drag a spread or page anywhere else in the document and the other pages shuffle to accommodate the new layout. With a double-sided document with facing pages on, that means that if you move a page or spread, the other pages shuffle to maintain the double-sided document.

Before (left) and after I drag the last spread in front of page 1: