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J
Joninen
Known Participant
January 9, 2019
Question

Showing Times New Roman as Symbol italic (= square signs)

  • January 9, 2019
  • 5 replies
  • 5234 views

Hi!

I've placed Word text (with Mathtype equations) to Mac InDesign, and some of the alphabets in the text (I don't mean the converted Mathtype equations) is shown as squares. So it doesn't recognize the font / sign. According to InDesign, the 'fonts' are Symbol Italic or Symbol Bold Italic – which actually doesn't exist as a font. There is only plain version from Symbol font.

I got the Word text (with the Mathtype equations) from my client who uses Windows. I also have the MathTools which should show the Mathtype equations text as fonts (instead of converting them) in InDesign.

But the primary challenge is to see those 'square' fonts as fonts (there are not many of them).

- What could be the issue?

Thank's!

Johnny

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    5 replies

    Willi Adelberger
    Community Expert
    Willi AdelbergerCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 19, 2019

    When you have a Word document on the Mac it uses Times New Roman from the Microsoft Package, not from the system.

    This font is very rich on symbols. Microsoft stores their font in each Programm Package (click with the right mouse click on the Program Icon and show the content. There you will find the fonts there and you can exhibit, what these fonts have and get a licence to use it on the system.

    J
    JoninenAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 20, 2019

    I opened that Word font folder package and saw the Symbol font there as well - and opened it. With he consequense that the Symbol font is seen as a square again I actually brought the Word text through the MathTools (NOT Mathtype), which lets me see the Mathtype fonts as fonts.

    I did something last week so that the Symbol squares decreased quite much. But now when activating the Symbol font, some of them are seen as aquares again. BUT I used the 'Find font' command in InDesign and replaced them with Times New Roman, and they at least look like the Math fonts.

    The problem is many of the math fonts are actually italic, and this replacing system doesn't automatcially separate the italic and plain font. So I would have to go font by font if changing them - plus really know what I'm doing.

    Hmmm...

    Thank's for the tip!

    Johnny

    Eric Dumas
    Community Expert
    Eric DumasCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 21, 2019

    Hi,

    Here is what I would suggest as a quick fix.

    I would get a trial copy of a Virtual Machine Software like Parallels or Oracle VirtualBox, run Windows and InDesign/MathType.

    Export for production.

    I understand that Windows might not be your OS of preference but that might be the quickest way to get you out of this jam.

    Your Creative Cloud licence allows you to install the Windows version of InDesign, the rest are all free or trial.

    Eric Dumas
    Community Expert
    Eric DumasCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 18, 2019

    HI,

    I did a bit more digging on this. It looks like the eps files (formulas) are embedded.

    In the MathType preference panel, the L.C. Greek type is using a Symbol font.

    I am having difficulties 'extracting' the embedded eps to let it get the right Symbol font and replace all the squares by the correct character. If you look at the address/location of the eps in your Links panel, it is inside the app (InDesign).

    Screenshot below.

    Compare EPS and PDF.

    From the Links Panel, the EPS is actually a Windows Metafile 'image' and I think that's why Mac doesn't like it too much. I think by adjusting the MS Word or MathType preferences to use even a PNG or JPG the export would be much more stable.

    J
    JoninenAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 18, 2019

    Just when I got new the Microsoft Office package in my Mac - it's gives me error reports almost all the time when trying to open it

    Yes, worth of trying what You just wrote (when getting the Word working).

    But the again: PNG nad JPG are 'pixel based' and the text is quite small, so the sharpness (compare to the other text) can't be quite the same? ...unless the resolution can be modified somewhere?

    Naturally I'll try it myself when getting the Word working (it works every now and then, but it also gives these error reports every now and then...).

    Johnny

    Eric Dumas
    Community Expert
    Eric DumasCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 16, 2019

    Hi,

    I installed MathType on both Windows and Mac. The font for the LC Greek is called Symbol. It should be one of the Symbol one in the folder I mentioned. As you can see from the screenshot below:

    1. I created a Word doc with MathType random formulas in it
    2. Placed the Word doc in InDesign
    3. A couple of things
      1. the Formulas are embedded as EPS in the Word Doc as inline graphic
      2. It works perfectly on the Windows version, not in the Mac one. Somehow, the eps does not work properly on Mac, but I couldn't open the eps in illustrator to 'update' it.
      3. When I open the Word doc on Windows or Mac, it looks ok.
    4. So I tried this
      1. Open Word
      2. Double click on the formula
      3. The formula opens in MathType
      4. I selected, File > Save copy as...
      5. Saved it as a pdf
      6. Inserted the pdf formula in InDesign to replace the 'faulty' one

    I know replacing each formula maybe is taking too long, so I tried something else

    1. Create the file in InDesign on Mac
    2. The formula had squares
    3. Save the file
    4. Open in in InDesign on Windows
    5. The formulas worked ok
    6. Make a pdf for distribution

    I would recommend to email MathType to flag this issue, they might have some advice on how to adjust the preferences for Copy/Paste of formulas to Word so the embedded graphic (formula) works on Mac.

    J
    JoninenAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 17, 2019

    Ok. Good to hear You tried all that.

    Looks like I have these squares in both formulas AND the ordinary text I'm bringing from Word to InDesign (in Mac). There are not many, but several on every page. And in both cases InDesign says it's missing Symbol Italic OR Symbol Bold Italic...

    ...sorry, they seems to disappear from the text, but not from the formulas (just tried that. It was as You said )

    Thank's!

    Johnny

    Eric Dumas
    Community Expert
    Eric DumasCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 16, 2019

    Hi here is what I did. I hope it will work for you.

    1. I installed the trial version of MathType from Download MathType 7 Desktop - WIRIS Store
      That is the plugin your client seem to use in MS Word to create the equations.
    2. From C:\Program Files (x86)\MathType\Fonts I copied all the fonts to a folder called Fonts in the same location as the folder. I also tried to install them in my system Fonts folder and in the Font Management System I use. The point is that InDesign needs to access the 'special' fonts that the document needs
    3. I reopened the InDesign document and the squares disappeared.
    J
    JoninenAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 16, 2019

    Those advices are propably for Windows InDesign, right?

    The original question was about the Mac InDesign. But I quess the same steps can be fulfild (in a way or another) in Mac / InDesign?

    So basically You copied the Mathtype fonts (from Mathtype fonts folder) in to InDesign fonts folder?

    There seems to be a PostScript and TrueType font folder in Mathtype fonts folder. Do I copy those two folders (with fonts in them)? ...or just the fonts without the folders?

    Thank's for the advices!

    Johnny

    Eric Dumas
    Community Expert
    Eric DumasCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 16, 2019

    I would copy all the fonts in a 'fonts' folder with your project. I can share a link with all the fonts if you have difficulties find them on your Mac.

    Eric Dumas
    Community Expert
    Eric DumasCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 9, 2019

    Hi,

    Often a font used in Windows, even if it has an equivalent on your Mac will not be recognised automatically. The font name is not always recognised accurately. So try this:

    • Type Menu
    • Find Font...
    • A yellow triangular warning will flag the fonts that cause an issue
    • You can select the flagged font and select your own font instead.

    Another rare possibility is that the font you have does not have the characters typed by your client and might need to be updated.

      J
      JoninenAuthor
      Known Participant
      January 9, 2019

      I did that. But the challenge after that is to find a font which shows the original 'signs.'

      I asked few days ago (here in the forum) about any Adobe math fonts – zero answers.

      I must be in a 'black hole' at the moment

      Thank's anyway

      Johnny

      Eric Dumas
      Community Expert
      Eric DumasCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      January 9, 2019

      Can you add a screenshot, that might help us locate the correct font.

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