Synchronizing text flow across pages for multiple text frames

[Exertive]

I am attempting to compose a document (non-facing pages) containing poetry in different languages with line numbers (every x lines). In my latest attempt, I have 4 columns representing the text and line numbers in each of the two languages.

My first attempt, using a multi-column text frame (primary and non-primary) failed because, for the life of me, I could find a way of getting the text to flow 'column first' (i.e. fill the first column until all text was entered on multiple pages before advancing to the  next column).

My latest attempt seemed more promising but still failed. I can fill the first column with text across multiple pages, but if I attempt to enter text (line numbers every 10 lines) in the second column, when I reach the end of the first page, InDesign inserts a new page between the first and previously second page with no text in the first column of the new second page.

I am now completely stumped, and I have not got to the third and fourth columns yet. 

Am I trying to achieve something that InDesign can't do or am I missing something?

Will I have to resort to abandoning text flow and treating each page/spread separately and copying pasting text into each column on a page-by-page basis?

Thanks in advance for any assistance,

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Turn off Smart Text Reflow: 

https://creativepro.com/make-indesign-add-pages-automatically-as-you-type/

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

If you create multi-column TextFrame - it will flow text between columns - in this TextFrame. 

You should rather create 4x different Stories - each one in its own "column" - and thread them manually as you add more text. 

Kind of like this - but as columns:

With "smart" on you can get something like this: 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I would consider simplifying the structure to two columns, with the text in in each language/column indented to leave room for an "outdented" line number. That would use a separate Paragraph Style — whatever base style is needed, with the setup to allow the outdent and (manual) number to be inserted.

The language columns should be separate flows  — I wouldn't try to to A/B/A/B in a single flow.

Other than setting up the two-column structure, this would all be controlled by Para styles, maybe quite a few in an organized hierarchy and mirrored between the two to allow separate language control. Styles that break at a column top would be essential to maintain the matched flow.

Does that make sense? Happy to explain in more detail if it's not clear.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

And if I understand you correctly, doing it as a one long Story, with each language starting on the first page - and still linked to the end of the Document - would be extremely impractical.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Well, the choices are one long story, broken at the start of each column on each page by manual intervention (assignment of a break paragraph style), or segments of some kind placed and managed page by page. Both require intensive page-editing but continuous flows allow for easier overall management, probably support accessibility better, allow on-the-fly changes, etc.

We see requests like this fairly often. I don't think there are any easy solutions, but using ID's structural features to their limit seems best to me.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@James Gifford—NitroPress

I think OP wants to have 1st column / language going from page 1 to let's say 55 - then go back to page 1 to 2nd column...

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

That would be do-able, but two flows would simplify things a great deal.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Doable - to the moment when one of the languages will get extra text and everything else reflows... 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

This (and most queries/projects like it) are things that can't be done without intensive line-by-line, page-by-page editing to keep the text in sync. The techniques matter very little except to enable consistency; there is simply no automated, auto-flow, one-pass method that will accommodate the unique needs of each small pairing of text.

So I'd lean towards solutions that make that intensive work easier and more consistent, not try to reach for ones that rely on auto processes that will surely fall short no matter how they are optimized to the task.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

As it's poetry - with simple, short lines - table would do pretty well? 

[Joel Cherney]

So I'd lean towards solutions that make that intensive work easier and more consistent, not try to reach for ones that rely on auto processes that will surely fall short no matter how they are optimized to the task.

This is the core reason that I've spent the last twenty years in InDesign, instead of LaTeX. 

@Exertive , laying out your text in a table as Robert suggests will take a whole lot of annoying manual work, but at least you'll be guaranteed that your translations will stay aligned with one another. Probably 100% worth the effort. On the other hand, four parallel threaded frames with lots of page breaks will also keep your texts aligned, at the costs of a multi-pass workflow where you will have to look at every subsequent page every time you make any substantial edits. Also probably worth the effort.

But, if what you really need is to spend a long time learning yet another page layout app, and you really want this whole four-parallel-texts thing to just Lay Itself Out once you've really perfected the setup, well, then, look into LaTeX. It's free, industrial-strength typesetting software wherein you write code that forces the layout. Where InDesign offers a  "what you see is what you get" interface, LaTeX is more of a "what you write is what you want" tool.  Not quite worth the effort, for my own selfish, commercial purposes. You might find otherwise for your own purposes. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

For the line numbers, you may want to test out Display Line Numbers from:

https://www.id-extras.com/products/line-numbers/

They have a trial version and it will auto-restart the numbering when it reaches a particular paragraph style (e.g., a title style).

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I think OP wants to have one extra flow with numbers - then extra columns with different languages - but everything "synchronised" - 1st line of each language side-by-side, etc. - so extra Story, as a 5th, or rather 1st column, with just numbers, done with Bullets & Numbering, should be good enough?