Legend

Question

Weird font issues rendering to PDF... and it's due to images!!

Forum|Forum|3 years ago
May 5, 2022
10 replies
9392 views

So when I export to PDF my fonts vary in thickness and weight, ever so slightly to be annoying. I have figured it out that it's the client logo on each page that's causing this. I remove them (10 pages in total... all content the same layout just different data) with logo top right. So, for some reason, logos are causing this to happen. Not sure why... any thoughts??

edit.. figured it out somehwhat - the pages that act weird have logos derived from imported svg files. All four pages appear the same, where the png logos on the other pages appear same - though svg and png pages are different. So why is ID treating svg logos and png logos oddly different?

ADDITIONAL EDIT: THIS ISSUE SEEMS TO BE A BUG IN ID. THIS HAPPENS EVEN WITH DOING A SIMPLE TEST OF A TEXT BOX AND A FILLED SQUARE NATIVE WITHIN SOFTWARE. Give that box opacity of any amount and you can see the text change. This issue doesn't care about printing - clients want this for viewing on screen, printing is an option if enduser wants. The PDF also shows these issues, and I think that since this happens with native elements within ID it is an internal bug, as I have not seen this happen in the past.

This topic has been closed for replies.

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Hi Brad,

what's your exact version of Acrobat Pro on your Windows machine?

I have Continous Release | Version 2022.001.20117 installed on Windows 10.

And I cannot see an issue with Rob's file "PDFXTrans.pdf" with Output Preview enabled.

I toggled between Simulate Overprinting on and off. No difference. The black text stays Process Black 100% and clearly it's in Device CMYK. Show: "Not Device CMYK" is showing an empty page.

Black ink turned off:

Well, let's switch to "Show: DeviceRGB" with several Preview settings.

Let's begin with:

Show: DeviceRGB

Preview: Separations

Show: DeviceRGB

Preview: Color Warnings

Finally do:

Show: DeviceRGB

Preview: Object Inspector

That view might be an odd one, you think.

But note, that DeviceRGB is grayed out and if I click an object the right information is shown.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

rob day

Community Expert

Hi Uwe, this thread has drifted over to Acrobat. Do you see the problem @Todd_Morgan is complaining about in the original post in your Windows version of InDesign where black only CMYK text has a bolder appearance when any transparent object is added to the spread?

Does Windows InDesign display the attached ID page differently than Mac InDesign?

IDTransparency.zip

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

"Does Windows InDesign display the attached ID page differently than Mac InDesign?"

The answer is Yes.

I had already tested this, so I did the same with your file: I added the corresponding page without transparency, so this is the result:

However, if you truen Overprint Preview on in ID, both are identical.

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

By the way: There are two ways to make your fonts consistent:

1. Acrobat's Preferences > Page Display > Rendering > Smooth Text > None. This, of course takes the anti-aliasing off and will make smaller type look jaggy.

or, better

2. Acrobat's Preferences > Page Display > Use Overprint Preview > Always (or Automatic)

J E L

Community Expert

Brad, is this the same issue we discussed at length here? https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/font-becomes-bold-with-png-or-psd-images-in-page/m-p/12850232#M471723

Basically, the answer was: "I just needed to export it in PDF/X-4 and that seemed to make the documents look exactly the same."

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

Seems so. although I've tried PDF/X-4 from both InDesign and Illustrator and the effect remains.

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

So, your PDF is fine. The effect your're seeing only seems to affect Acrobat on Windows especially on a lower-res monitor, and only on pages with any sort of transparency. Any WHOLE page with transparency is rendered into the Output Color space. Your page 2 is doing that.

What seems to be exaggerating the issue for you goes back to a potential bug in Windows Acrobat I noticed before in a different situation. It seems to read the color space of your PDF improperly in Windows Acrobat compared to Mac. Windows seems to be reading your PDF as DeviceRGB instead of DeviceCMYK.

If you go to Print Production > Output Preview and hover over each item, you can see what this is doing.

On the Mac: Your text is 100K as you intended and your object is 47% opacity of an object filled with Registration Color 100C100M100Y100K, so is correctly 47C47MM47Y47K.

Look at the same in Windows, and your text is no longer 100K, it has been rendered in 4 colours. This is what's causing your text to look fatter. (btw: I'm using the most current Acrobat in both platforms here)

Just to be clear, this is a problem only with the screen display of your file in Acrobat in Windows, and only on pages with Transparency.

So, InDesign isn't the culprit here; Acrobat is. If you open this file in a browser or other program that reads PDFs, it looks just fine.

rob day

Community Expert

Windows seems to be reading your PDF as DeviceRGB instead of DeviceCMYK

Hi Brad, Check the objects with Object Inspector, which will give you the actual values and color spaces—select Object Inspector from the Preview dropdown and click on the object you want to inspect.

I see that @Todd_Morgan ’s transparent rectangle is filled with the Registration swatch (Separation All), and the text is filled with Black only Color Values = [0, 0, 0 1.0]

Acrobat’s Separations view shows the conversion values from the object’s profile into the chosen Simulation Profile. In the current version of AcrobatPro, DocumentCMYK colors (no profile) will show a conversion if the Simulation profile does not match the current Acrobat CMYK space set in the Color Management Prefs, or if there is not a PDFX Output Intent included.

If I set my CMYK Color Management preference to US Sheetfed Coated, I get the same values listed in Object Inspector when the Simulation Profile is also set to US Sheetfed:

But, again this problem has come up before and I have never been able to reproduce it on OSX with either InDesign or Acrobat

Ian Sayers

Inspiring

I am happy to share my email address for you to share the files and to take a closer look to see if the same thing happens here.

Ian Sayers

Inspiring

In Indesign, make sure the Text is at the top layer or brought to the front when using pages with transparency in logos.

Also - Change the text in the logos to outlines when possible to avoid Text problems.

If you can ensure the bounding box holding the logo is also as small as possible and not overlapping any other text box on the page. If it does then check out the text where it overlaps - this normally is where the slightly bold text appears. Make the text box appear in front (on top) of the logo layer and then make the pdf file.

Todd_MorganAuthor

Legend

No it's a bug in ID. Even with a simple test I see it. Maybe try what I did. Create a text box and a square. Duplicate that page and then give that square a 50% transparent... notice how the type changes.

rob day

Community Expert

Maybe try what I did.

This is what I get with ID 16.4 on OSX Mojave

Todd_MorganAuthor

Legend

I created a new blank doc. Typed a sentence. Created a box with fill. Then slide the transparency to 50% and you'll see that affect the type.

Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Community Expert

What settings are you using for Export?

If you, e.g. save out as an older version of PDF that doesn't support Transparency, anywhere you have your "transparent" logo will be flattened, and that will include rendering into pixels any text BELOW it. So this might be a layering issue. Make sure your logo is behind any text you want left alone.

Todd_MorganAuthor

Legend

It appears to be an issue within InDesign... I can see happen on my screen when I place either a png or a native graphic element like a square wityh 50% trans. So must be something in ID where I have a setting not right or it's a bug.

Willi Adelberger

Community Expert

I repeat:

Do the transparent parts of the images cover the text? Therefore you should put the text in a layer above these images.

James Gifford—NitroPress

Legend

Both PNG and SVG are... problematic formats for anything but web use. Many get acceptable PDF and print use out of PNG (more or less, as long as you aren't looking for precise color matching and rendering) but SVG simply should be avoided for anything but gotta-be-vector for web display.

Convert both to JPEG with acceptable resolution and lossiness. If you must have transparency, use AI if you can get there, and optimized PNG if you can't. (A lot of PNG files are generated/exported using crummy tools and processes; back up and get clean files out of Photoshop if you can.)

—

Todd_MorganAuthor

Legend

It seems to be more a bug. Even with no images, I am getting this issue when I have any native graphics (line, curves...) set to semi-transparent (like a cricle with only a stroke, set to 45% transparent) so it's something happening within ID...

James Gifford—NitroPress

Legend

Okay, then the comments about transparency space are more likely to be on target.

I threw this in because while ID will place and handle many image formats, there's definitely a hierarchy of those that work best and cause the fewest cascading problems. These web formats (and we'll see another round of such problems/complaints when WEBP starts being used) should be completely avoided in ID projects—at least, those intended for print and PDF. You might try a few pages with no PNG/SVG images in the document just to make sure they aren't confusing the export process.

—

Willi Adelberger

Community Expert

What file type has the logo? Don't use PNG, use AI.

Is the logo below or above the text? It should, if it is a pixel image below the text.

Do you work with layers? It would help you.

Todd_MorganAuthor

Legend

I updated all logos to vector, which solved that issue, but seems that anywhere I have an item with transparentcy (like an object or box or line) I get this weirdness... and I have a page that has employee headshots which are also png with alpha and they also cause this strange anomoly with the type become thicker...

Willi Adelberger

Community Expert

Do the transparent parts of the images cover the text? Therefore you should put the text in a layer above these images.

John Mensinger

Community Expert

Two things in play there, perhaps.

When transparency is introduced, it can affect everything on the page, especially if there is a mix CMYK and RGB elements. (Typically, your type may be set in 0,0,0,100, whereas placed PNG files are surely RGB and possibly contain transparency.) Changing the Transparency Blend Space may help.

The other consideration is the setting in Acrobat > Preferences > Page Display > Rendering > Enhance Thin Lines.

Todd_MorganAuthor

Legend

Changed the transparancy blend to rgb... fixed it somewhat but still see it when going from page to page...

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