P: Save Metadata To File doesn't change metadata status, Read Metadata From File doesn't always work

[andyptak]

Ever since upgrading to the latest version I've had Metadata conflicts - little exclamation mark in Grid view. I even deleted my catalog of more than 200k images and started again to no avail.  I also synched all of my folders and no difference.

When I click on the exclamation mark I get the message that says that metadata has been changed by another program and Lightroom, even when I have only used Lightroom. When I click to upate the metadata the exclamtion dissapears but comes back very quickly. I made a Quick Collection of all metadata conflict shots - over 6000 - and syched them. The number dropped by a third but then came back to the original total within minutes.

I have lost all of the displayed colored flags in Grid View but can still select various colors in the Metadata panel at the top and get the appropriate shots. When clicking on an individial cell in Grid View I get a thin colored line around the shot which then dissapears when I click on another shot. I get the correct color but no flag.

I have auto save xmp on. I'm also at my wits end. anyone have any ideas? Thanks

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

When the development of a photo consists solely of a horizontal adjustment the change can not be written to the metadata of a JPG.  The metadata status remains "has been changed". I guess that behaviour is not as it is supposed to be?

[tmickow]

Seems to be working fine here in LrC 10.0/Win10.

- What version of LrC & OS are you using?

- Can you be more specific with what you mean by "consists solely of a horizontal adjustment"?  What are the exact steps you're taking?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Thank you for your immediate reply.

Yes, I am using the same versions (LRC 10 and Win10). 

The steps have been: import, develop, change angle, crop, and after some tries, say done. I came upon two photos in my catalogue with this problem.

Now, I repeated the process with another picture and everything worked fine. There is a difference, though: The problematic photos show only the cropped sign in the lower right corner. The newer one also has the marker for the development adjustments. Maybe that's the reason behind this?

[tmickow]

What happens if you select the file(s) and press Ctrl+S (keyboard shortcut to save metadata to the file)?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

It seems that nothing happens, i. e. after the confirmation that the metadata really should be saved, the confirmation window closes and the down arrow showing that the meta data has changed, is remaining.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Apparently the problem occurs, if the angle is provided manually. In this case there is only information about the cropping and the saving fails.

When using "Auto" instead, there are both symbols, "Photo has been cropped" and "Photo has Develop adjustments" and the saving just works  fine.

[tmickow]

I can't replicate exactly what you're describing, but I am beginning to think you've tripped over something here.

In my case, there's no indication of a problem, but LrC does not appear to be writing the cropping info to the file consistently when that's the only change that's been made.

With "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files" and "Automatically write changes to XMP" checked, my steps to reproduce were - 

1. Import file.
2. Press R to access the crop tool and change only the horizontal and/or vertical crop.
3. Go back to Library and remove the image from LrC.
4. Re-import the image to LrC.
5. Image comes back without the cropping changes applied in step 2.

Variations -

• It appears if I make any other change along with the crop in step 2 - change the angle, up the color temp by 1, etc. - when the image is re-imported in step 5, the cropping changes are there.
• If I explicitly save the metadata using the menu or Ctrl+S in between step 2 and 3, when the image is re-imported in step 5, the cropping changes are there.
• Behavior is similar with files already in LrC that have a crop applied to them.  If I reset the crop without changing anything else, remove the image from LrC, and re-import, it comes in with the original crop applied

I tested with a number of jpg & png files.

A new catalog made no difference.

Resetting preferences made no difference.

We'll have to wait and see if anybody else chimes in here, but something appears to be misbehaving.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Thank you for your thorough testing and detailed reply. So, for the time being it might be best to work around it...

[drtonyb]

*Irma_VG7 , @TomM I have been trying this and have found a problem, but before I go further with it, can you tell me what Import Build Previews setting you are using?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Does this help? Or, if you need something else, where can I find the information?

[drtonyb]

No, not the software build. When you Import into Lightroom Classic, the Import Dialog  has an option in the upper left called Build Previews with choices of Minimal, Embedded & Sidecar, Standard and 1:1.

Which option are you using for Build Previews?

[John R Ellis]

[Update: Another symptom is that converting a raw with a non-zero crop angle to DNG loses the crop angle:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-save-metadata-to-fi... 

- JRE]

[Update: LR 10.2 fixes the problem with black & white but not with crop angle. -JRE]

After changing a raw to black & white or changing its crop angle, the Save Metadata To File command writes a .xmp sidecar but the photo's Metadata Status remains Has Been Changed.  Only after doing Metadata > Read Metadata From File does the status change to Up To Date.  In addition, Read Metadata From File doesn't correctly read in a changed crop angle that exists in the sidecar.

To reproduce:

1. Make a new catalog and import one raw that currently doesn't have a .xmp sidecar.

2. Edit the raw in Develop and click Treatment: Black & White.

3. In grid view observe that Metadata Status is Has Been Changed and the badge on the thumbnail is the down-arrow.

4. Do Metadata > Save Metadata To File and observe that Metadata Status hasn't changed.

5. Open the .xmp sidecar in a text editor and observe that it records the black & white setting.

6. Do Metadata > Read Metadata From File and observe that the photo remains black & white but Metadata Status is now Up To Date.

7. Remove the photo from the catalog and delete its .xmp sidecar.

8. Import the photo again into the catalog.

9. Edit the photo and in the Crop tool type in an angle of 25.

10.  In grid view observe that Metadata Status is Has Been Changed and the badge on the thumbnail is the down-arrow.

11. Do Metadata > Save Metadata To File and observe that Metadata Status hasn't changed.

12. Open the .xmp sidecar in a text editor and observe that it records the crop angle of 25.

13. Do Metadata > Read Metadata From File and observe that the crop angle has been lost, but the Metadata Status is now Up To Date.

Screen recording: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fi0scv3vauqj5hu/metadata-save-read-bug.2020.10.31.mov?dl=0 

Someone else reported that metadata status wasn't updating after saving:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/metadata-badge-is-not-updated-after-the-metadata-is... 

Tested on LR 10.0 / Mac OS 10.15.5.

[John R Ellis]

I encountered similar symptoms -- I'll merge the two conversations.

[drtonyb]

@John_R_Ellis, Confirming all of this on my Windows 10 system.

In addition, upon executing step 13, I note that in Develop a Reset Settings has been added to the History, which is obviously wrong.

[Smit K]

Thanks for reporting this.

We have been able to reproduce this and logged a bug for the same.

Thanks,
Smit K
Lightroom Classic team

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

@anthony_blackett Thank you. It's the Standard Build Previews.

[drtonyb]

*Irma_VG7 Thanks, I have another problem that is related to Embedded & Sidecar previews which I will report separately.

[Califdan2]

Here's another case in point.....

Lightroom Version 10.0

Operating System Windows 10

In some (not all) cases where I have a DNG file where LrC shows the down-arrow icon indicating that the metadata in LrC has changed and the change has not been copied to the file, when I click the icon (or use the menu to save metadata to file). The date/time shown in Windows/10 file manager is not updated and the icon in LrC does not clear. (LR.10.0)

1) Note "metadata in Lrc Has changed" icon

Image is not available

2) click icon circled above. Click "Save" in ensuing pop up box

Image is not available

3) Saving Metadata progress bar appears for a few seconds then goes away. However, the icon on the image remains and the date/time on the file in File manager does not update

Image is not available

The DNG metadata on some images is empty (just says unknown) , but on others with same problem it is filled in. Here is an example of one that is filled in

Image is not available

But, the metadata date in LrC gets updated

Image is not available

I've disabled all plugin's which didn't help?

Addendum:  After saving Metadata to disk as described above, If I read metadata from disk the tag gets reset (and the image is removed from my smart collection which is based on metadata status)

[JMarkTurner]

This is an old problem that continues to plague me in Lightroom. I'm currently running Build [202008061458-dbb2971e] under Windows 10, but the same issue occurred in earlier versions and under Windows 7. There have been other threads about the issue going back at least to 2011.

Routinely, for some (but not all) images, the "Metadata file needs to be updated" icon does not disappear after writing the metadata to the XMP sidecar file by either pressing Ctrl-S or clicking on the icon. I can confirm that the XMP file was updated by checking the timestamp in Windows file explorer.

In these two screenshots you can see that image 0504952.cr2, the selected one, shows the metadata needs to be updated icon, while the file exlorer snippet shows the timestamp of the XMP file to be current today (12/9/2020).

It appears the metadata is being updated, but the icon is not. I can examine the contents of the plain-text XMP file in Notepad++ and see that the item I'd updated in Lightroom metadata has indeed been written to the file.

It doesn't seem to matter whether I select one image to write out the metadata or several hundred. Sometimes the icon gets updated (going away) and sometimes it doesn't.

Closing, then re-launching LR still shows that the metadata needs to be written to the file.

In my workflow, I'll make changes to one or many image in Lightroom and then manually use Ctrl-S to write out the metadata changes (rather than have LR do it automatically with every edit).

In case it helps someone at Adobe figure this out, here's my System Info report:

Lightroom Classic version: 9.4 [ 202008061458-dbb2971e ]
License: Creative Cloud
Language setting: en
Operating system: Windows 10 - Business Edition
Version: 10.0.18363
Application architecture: x64
System architecture: x64
Logical processor count: 4
Processor speed: 3.3 GHz
SqLite Version: 3.30.1
Built-in memory: 24551.0 MB
Real memory available to Lightroom: 24551.0 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 2582.5 MB (10.5%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 2561.8 MB
GDI objects count: 762
USER objects count: 2636
Process handles count: 1916
Memory cache size: 205.0MB
Internal Camera Raw version: 12.4 [ 555 ]
Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 3
Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX
Camera Raw virtual memory: 207MB / 12275MB (1%)
Camera Raw real memory: 208MB / 24551MB (0%)
System DPI setting: 96 DPI
Desktop composition enabled: Yes
Displays: 1) 1920x1200
Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: Yes, External touch: No, External pen: Yes, Keyboard: No

Graphics Processor Info: 
DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce GT 630 (23.21.13.8813)

Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
Library Path: I:\Turner_LR5_Catalog\Turner_LR5_Catalog-3-2.lrcat
Settings Folder: C:\Users\Mark\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom

Installed Plugins: 
1) AdobeStock
2) Animoto
3) Any Filter
4) Aurora HDR
5) ColorChecker Passport
6) Export to Photomatix Pro
7) Facebook
8) Flickr
9) HDR Efex Pro 2
10) jb Search Replace Transfer
11) jf Collection Publisher
12) LR/Enfuse
13) LR/Instagram
14) LR/Mogrify 2
15) LR/Transporter
16) Luminar 4
17) Magic Export
18) MyKeyworder for Lr
19) Nikon Tether Plugin
20) Perfectly Clear Complete v3
21) ProSelect Album Builder

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[Califdan2]

I have this problem as well but not limited to files with XMP side cars.  also happens to files with embedded XMP data such as JPG's

[JMarkTurner]

Also happens with PSD files.

[ouiouiphoto]

This problem can appear if the file are on a NAS. in fact there is small difference between the time recorded in LR and the time on the NAS because of read/write buffers. This was existing with Synology and there was a post explaining how to solve it but I don't remember were it was. You should check not h/m but seconds in the property of the file and compare to the second recorded in LR

[JMarkTurner]

That's not my issue. All my photo files are on internal hard drives inside my Windows box. I use a NAS for backup, but that's not what LR is looking at.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I'm having the same problem! The progress bar appears, but the 'needs to be updated' icon reappears. This is with a <ctrl><s> or clicking on that icon.

This is a long shot, but I noticed this the same time as I ran across that lovely problem with the new camera raw and 3rd party LUTs when opening a LRC developed file in PS.

[Califdan2]

Mine are on a WD external hard drive (not a NAS)