P: Allow Lightroom to open a file without using a catalog

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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Hi, Adobe

Most users I engage with are not enthused with the 'catalog' concept in the current lightroom platform.  In fact some are looking to move waway from Adobe to other platforms ( Read Captur , On1, etc) because of this feature. It's not an economical workflow to have files constrained by this feature and have to work through this when Camera Raw can do the same editing while managing data with Bridge. It seems an additional feature with little or no advantage, but an additional cost on subscription. It would be better to introduce a dedicated 'Tether' tool - direct into file structure and improve the capture speed (Which is the advantage Capture 1 touts as benefit)

Cheers

 

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LEGEND ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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No.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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I teach Lightroom Classic and in my experience all students, once they understand the catalog concept, also understand the many benefits it has.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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quote

Hi, Adobe

Most users I engage with are not enthused with the 'catalog' concept in the current lightroom platform.  

 

Teach them. No one here was born understanding how LR or any software product works.

 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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Can you please provide examples of these advantages and where you see these being advantages over a standard folder based file structure.

I’ve been using Lightroom for years now and consider catalogs just an warranted layer of administration to contend with.

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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Can you please provide examples of these advantages and where you see these being advantages over a standard folder based file structure.

 

How about the task of a DAM that isn't accomplished with a standard folder-based file structure. 

Let's also add Virtual and Proof copies. Or Smart Collections. There are far more but let's start there. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Contributor ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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The big advantage of LR is that you can select all photos and you can find find the photo you are looking for with a quick search without going folder by folder .

 

Any way if you prefer you can add a folder to a Catalog, then when you are finished simply remove it.

Work like that, be sure to save changes into XMP all the times and you will be good.

 

Capture One as well has catalog, I don't remember how it differs from Lr.

I haven't used it in years.

 

And btw this feature requests will never be honoured l because catalog it's what makes Lr great.

 

.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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My thought on this issue are quite different. To use LrC you have to subscribe to the Adobe Photography Plan which to my mind is all about Photoshop, Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw and with LrC and Lr cloud centric apps included. You now have Bridge/Camera Raw and LrC which provide similar services and you can choose the alternative applications that satisfy your needs.

I choose to use LrC and not Bridge / Camera Raw to work with my image files (mainly raw digital files).

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6.8,; LrC 11.4.1, Lr 5.4.1, Ps 23.3.2-ACR 14.4,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 30, 2022 Jul 30, 2022

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One thing I would like to see added to Lightroom Classic is the possibility of a CATALOG-less workflow, and by that I mean one where edits would be stored in XMP files and not a catalog file.  I mean LR can still create a catalog of files but it wouldn't store the actual edit information in the catalog, but instead act more like ACR and use XMP files.  I know LR Classic has the option to write changes to XMP, which is good, but I Feel the whole process of having to import files and have edits in the database to be a bit tedious, especially for people who only work on one photo at a time and therefore the process of importing files to edit them is a bit of a waste of time.

 

OR make LR Classic operate more like Bridge and ACR.  Images don't need to be imported necessarily, but the program can "catalog" files information in a small database for faster searching/sorting.  Basically this would be a file-based workflow and not a catalog-based workflow.  I think this could be done without severely changing the LR Classic interface.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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The CATALOG-less workflow is ACR.

This should never and never will be part of Lightroom. 2 months and 2 upvotes illustrates this well.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Contributor ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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@sirhawkeye 

 

Catalog means Develop History!

 

In light of that even importing a single image into Lr is in my eyes advantageous when it comes to development.

History is a total game changer, a feature of infinite usefulness.

 

I understand importing requires a bit more time compared to Bridge "browsing" but importing, even a single image, is well worth doing considered the benefits/features we have in Lr.

 

.

 

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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Regardless of the built-in benefits of a catalog, some of the competitors out there have a "single file" edit mode, where you can non-destructively edit a photo without needing to import it into your catalog.  This might be useful for those who maybe don't need the Library module (like me) and could bypass importing images (since I do most of my culling in Bridge) but otherwise would use other modules in LR like the print module or GPS/Map module.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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quote

Regardless of the built-in benefits of a catalog, some of the competitors out there have a "single file" edit mode, where you can non-destructively edit a photo without needing to import it into your catalog.

 

Then use one of them (or ACR). BTW, none if this has anything to do with parametric (non-destructively editing a photo). 

Adobe provides two tools for parametric raw editing; one with database (DAM) and one without. Pick the one you prefer. 

LR will continue to provide a catalog as that's a huge part of the toolset. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Contributor ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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@sirhawkeye 

 

Open Bridge > navigate to folder > edit photo in ACR 

 

Open Lr > in "Import" navigate to folder  > import > edit.

 

For single image it's minimally slower than Bridge...if it's not good for you then stick to Bridge.

 

.

 

 

Everything you can do in Bridge and ACR you can do in LR edits wise 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Engaged ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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If you want a Bridge and ACR like experience then use Bridge and ACR.   

 

If you want the benefits of a database (i.e. Catalog) based management tool with the power of ACR then use LrC

 

If you want a scaled down cloud based experience with the power of ACR, use LR (which BTW also uses a catalog but just keeps it hidden from you).

 

It's not that complicated. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 31, 2022 Jul 31, 2022

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I posted some thoughts earlier in the thread and just wish to add my reason for why I adopted the use of Lightroom as my app for processing my Raw Digital image files from my camera. Most of the files in my Catalog are RAW and represent over 90% of my images.

‘Reflections on my journey with amateur photography,

1979- I was by profession a Bank manager with a family, wife and three children and very large family. We travel often on vacation since my wife and I both have siblings abroad in Canada, England and Australia and travel often for visits and vacation. I decided to purchase a SLR camera to capture images for memory sake which was a Canon AE 1.

In early 1983 bitten by the bug and becoming involved with social functions at work and sporting activity such as golf I up graded to an advanced professional level camera Canon F1 new and additional FD lenses which were all manual focus.

A few years later Canon upgraded their system to Canon EOS, however I resisted the temptation to upgrade to the new body since it would not support the lens mount of my FD lenses and due to the cost involved.

 

Many years later towards the end of 1999, I realized that the Digital cameras being introduced into the market were producing files that were comparable with the results obtained from 35mm film cameras. I decided to sell my equipment to a professional photo journalist at an attractive price and purchased a entry level Olympus digital to check the quality the Olympus 3030 3 mega pixel point and shoot.

 

The brand I chose was not relevant since I would not have been able to use my equipment with the Canon digital EOS camera bodies.

 

June 2002 I was satisfied with the quality of digital images and upgraded to an Olympus E 20n 5mp DSLR. This camera produced ORF files which were supported by PS Elements 1 & 2 which supported with the Camera Raw Plugin and utilized for a couple of years.

Eventually I secured a copy of Photoshop CS, November 2004 I believe, for a good discount offered at the time US$200.

I upgraded my E 20n to an Olympus 300 in early 2005 only to be confronted with the reality that I need to upgrade my Photoshop to have access to the new version of Camera Raw that supported my new camera. Reality check not going to happen.

I searched for an alternate RAW processing application, Capture one, Bibble Labs, SilkyPix, Olympus software and Raw Shooter Premium. Problem is each of these applications produce their own sidecar files with their own name like .xmp from Camera Raw. What a mess!!!

 

June 2006, Adobe purchases the company that produces Raw Shooter Premium and incorporates some of the features in its new Application being created at the time i.e. Lightroom. At that time I was a Beta tester for Raw Shooter and I signed up with the Lightroom beta program pre-release in February 2007.

I adopted the Lightroom app when released mainly because it was able to function without .xmp sidecar files and for me as far as my workflow is concerned all the info is in the Catalog file.

Be aware almost all Photoshop users at the time Lightroom was being developed were using Camera Raw/ Bridge and a large percentage of them continue to this day.

If you are a Graphics / Designer utilizing lots of advanced features of Photoshop this makes perfect sense.

However users who are basically Photographers may prefer the workflow, file management, sharing etc available in Lightroom Classic.

 

Lightroom was not designed as a replacement for Adobe Camera Raw.”

 

 

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6.8,; LrC 11.4.1, Lr 5.4.1, Ps 23.3.2-ACR 14.4,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 01, 2022 Aug 01, 2022

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A dedicated image database can be faster and have more features than a generic filesystem that is not designed specifically for photos. You can always use Bridge and ACR if you dislike the catalog implementation.

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