P: Bring back the ability of Enhance to run in the background. (LrC)

[adventure_photo]

I just updated to Lightroom Classic 14.4 and although I do like the fact that I can Denoise without creating a DNG file, I still would like the option to select a series of images and menu: Photo>Enhance... to let it create dngs in the background which enables me to work on other images while it;s doing those. Currently, in 14.4 it takes a long time, especially if I have multiple images that I am denoising and I cannot do anything elese while it's doing that process. Is there still a way possible to do it the old previous way of creating a DNG Denoised file? Seems like an oversight when implementing this new way and slows down my whole workflow.

[ronb2]

As Generous_view indicated, I did everything -- culled photos from other shoots, edited metadata, did adjustments to raw files, etc. I agree that this is an extremely silly question to ask. It's quite apparent that the team is not using the software as the users are if they felt that their regression was beneficial.

There's absolutely no reason for this to run in the foreground when a better solution was already in place. If the intent is to only make a subset of functionality available, then this is another failure. It'd be better to return to the 14.3.1 and earlier working method of denoising photos than to retain this mangled process.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

@Generous_view0D45  & @ronb2 

Thank you for the feedback.

For you two, specifically, I would ask, did you find the performance while doing 'everything' in the app during a background Denoise satisfactory when compared to the same tasks with no background Denoise running?

[Generous_view0D45]

did you find the performance while doing 'everything' in the app during a background Denoise satisfactory when compared to the same tasks with no background Denoise running?

By @Rikk Flohr: Photography

I have previously commented many times on my dissatisfaction with how unexpectedly poorly Lightroom runs overall on my rather new and powerful gaming laptop, and have been consistently met with silence on the topic when I press for answers. (See this and this.)

That being said, yes, performance was of course affected. But once again, I think everyone here would agree that being able to do slower work is infinitely better than being able to do no work at all.

[ronb2]

There was a bit of an impact, but for me it was negligible on the MacBook Pros I use. For most things, I noticed almost no slowdowns and the most noticeable performance degradation occurred in what's probably a very niche area: during file operations on a network drive when denoising files on a network drive.

[ondrejb47127146]

During denoising, which takes a long time on my M4 Pro:

I can sort or edit the next shooting...

I can run multiple different denoises and not wait for each process end to start a new one, syncing...

I can edit just denoised images (while the process is running), which is a fantastic time saving option...

[jayb17217211]

I used to be able to continue editing in Lightroom whilst the denoising process happened. Now I can't do anything due to the pop up box blocking any actions. This has significantly affected my workflow. Will downgrade to previous version til this is fixed. 

[DHW Photography]

Lets not assume that background processing is the only impact this change has to people's workflows. The ease of batch processing and the ability to choose and preview your level of denoise BEFORE applying is also a major factor. 

If the denoise method in the latest update doesn't change I will be looking to cancel my sub with Adobe, LrC is my main editing tool and what's the point in paying a subscription when I will lose any future updates trying to avoid being hit with this ill fitted denoise solution?

[Lars M�rch]

LRC 14.4 Denoise function now blocks everything else - It's no longer possible to denoise multiple images and no longer possible to do other stuff while waiting.

Redo that please.

[johnrellis]

"It's no longer possible to denoise multiple images"

You can Copy/Paste/Sync/Auto Sync the Denoise setting to a batch of photos, or use a develop preset.

"Denoise function now blocks everything else - ... and no longer possible to do other stuff while waiting."

Lots of people have complained about this. Please upvote this popular Idea:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-bring-back-the-ability-of-enhance-to-create...

[johnrellis]

Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge with this Idea:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-bring-back-the-ability-of-enhance-to-create...

[Incredible_Explorer0544]

After installing version 14.4, I imported about 500 photos und used the raw details function on all of them, and partly the denoise function in addition. I moticed that Lightroom performance got really slow and investigated:

1. The catalog pre-14.4 with about 5000 photos was about 1.3 GB. With the additional 500 photos catalog size was blown up to 14.3 GB! 

2. Exported the 500 photos to a new catalog, which has a size of 13.4 GB. Please note that the combined file size of the 500 raw files is about 19 GB.

3. Reviewing the XMP files I noticed that they are huge, mostly between 50 and 100 % of the raw file!

4. Optimizing the catalog does not reduce its size and does not improve performance.

The previous denoise function, which created a DNG file, was great, including the preview window which was quite helpful in setting the parameter. Most importantly however, working with the DNG file was perfectly smooth, not deteriorating performance and not blowing up the catalog. 

The problem is not just the denoise, as I only used this for a part of the photos, but seem to be the raw details function as well. For me, this function has become essentially unusable, which is extremely annoying. I even had to remove the 500 photos from the catalog and restart processing from scratch, to get acceptable performance again. A work-around would be to optionally activate the previous version of denoise / raw details, to allow for creating an additional DNG file, as before 14.4.

[ronb2]

Thank you for the analysis @Incredible_Explorer0544 ! For someone like me with a large library of images this makes the new enhance function entirely unusable even without the workflow breaking issues.

 @Rikk Flohr: Photography if you're now just stashing the information previously saved as the DNG in the catalog then this will cause issues for anyone who has large libraries of images and offloads them to other drives or network storage. Especially with no way to easily change where this excess data was stored as we did in the past with the DNG results.

[Incredible_Explorer0544]

Although moving my post to this thread makes some sense, the issue associated with the new non-destructive enhance functions is far greater than the inconvenience of not being able to do it in the background. In fact, the new approach, due to what it does to the catalog and Lightroom performance, is seriously flawed. 

[zoelarkinphoto]

Hi Lightroom team,

I’m a working professional and long-time Lightroom Classic user who relies heavily on the AI Denoise feature to edit high-ISO wedding images efficiently. The June 2024 update (LrC 14.4 & LrD 8.4) removed the ability to batch apply AI Denoise, and that change is seriously disrupting professional workflows like mine.

Previously, we could select multiple images, run AI Denoise with a single dialog box, and have it apply to all selected photos. Now, each image requires manual, individual confirmation, even if we're applying the same settings — which is wildly inefficient and a massive time sink.

Furthermore, the biggest issue is that we are locked out of using Lightroom while the process works. It used to take 5 seconds per image with a fast system like mine with 128GB RAM. Now it takes minutes per image.

There is no benefit whatsoever to not having a DNG created. It's totally fine to have a separate DNG created.

The way high-volume professionals were using this feature was to 1) assign a color to all RAW files that need AI -denoising, for example blue by hitting [9]. 2) edit all photos 3) run the AI denoising on just those blue-colored images 4) assign a one-star rating to the originals of the denoised images, excluding them from the final selects 5) reorder and export.

Yup, 5 seconds per image, and nothing else could be accidentally 'auto-synced' (before you tell me that's exactly the same - it's NOT), it's always the same level of AI Denoising I'm applying - 40% is my sweet spot, I don't change it - so I don't need access to a slider (which only denoises one image anyway instead of all of them). 

I’m not alone in this. Multiple users have raised this issue here:

• Adobe Community: Page 1, Page 2, More user feedback

• Reddit discussion: Link

Please consider restoring the original batch workflow where one could denoise many files at once using shared settings. Even if you want to retain the new per-image dialog as a default, please give us a toggle or workaround to enable the previous method. Currently I'm back using 14.2, and will have to be until this is fixed. 

For working photographers with hundreds of thousands of images to process, this is not just a “nice-to-have” – it’s essential.

Thanks for listening and I hope this gets addressed soon. I'd like to continue using the Lightroom I've paid for with access to new updates, rather than being stuck at 14.2 until the previous workflow is possible again. 

[Lars M�rch]

I used ro be able to work on archer images during multiple denoising batch. Now I can do nothing, slowing my work process down considerably 

[johnrellis]

@Incredible_Explorer0544, the increase in catalog size you reported for Denoise sounds too big by a factor of three, suggesting something anomalous with your installation.  What camera model(s) generated the raws you tested? I can run some tests with that camera to see if I get the same results.

Details

You report Denoise of 500 raws caused a 13 GB net increase in the size of the catalog (presumably the entire catalog folder), or about 26 MB/photo.

I just did a test with 487 photos from my test catalog with raws from 82 camera models from 9 manufacturers. It caused a net increase of only 6.7 MB/photo, which aligns with what others have reported. The average raw file size in my test was about 30 MB/photo, whereas it was a little larger in your test, about 38 MB/photo. 

LR 14.4 stores the Denoise data in the <catalog>.lrcat-data file, which is also used for computed AI masks. In my test, the DNGs computed by LR 14.3 and earlier were much larger than the 14.4 data, about 57 MB/photo. Thus, LR 14.4 used about 88% less bytes for storing Denoise data than previous versions.

You wrote, "Reviewing the XMP files I noticed that they are huge, mostly between 50 and 100 % of the raw file!" 

The .xmp sidecars contain a copy of the Denoise data, just as they contain copies of computed AI masks. In my tests, the .xmp sidecars are about 25% of the raw file size.   But in your tests, the Denoise data per photo was about three times bigger, which accounts for the much larger .xmp sidecar size.

[Incredible_Explorer0544]

@johnrellis 

• The camera is the Sony A7R3.
• The catalog file itself is 13.3 GB and the lrcat-data folder is an additional 13.4 GB, so it's not the entire catalog folder. This is for the catalog only containing the 500 new photos. Please note that the catalog containing the 5000 pre-14.4 photos has just over 1 GB.

In the end, it's not about the actual amount of storage space. What is critical is Lightroom performance. I wouldn't mind the data stored in some XMP file and loaded when accessing a particular image, as long as overall performance would not be affected. 

[johnrellis]

@zoelarkinphoto: "It used to take 5 seconds per image with a fast system like mine with 128GB RAM. Now it takes minutes per image."

I compared batch Denoise in LR 14.4 with the old DNG Denoise in LR 14.3 on a sample of 20 raws from Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Fujifilm. LR 14.4 was 18% faster, taking 11.5 secs/photo compared to 14.1 secs/photo in LR 14.3. (This is on my Macbook Pro M2 Max, which has a fast GPU.)

If your LR 14.4 is taking minutes per image, there's some problem specific to your installation.  

[johnrellis]

@zoelarkinphoto: "Now, each image requires manual, individual confirmation, even if we're applying the same settings...it's always the same level of AI Denoising I'm applying - 40% is my sweet spot"

There are two ways in LR 14.4 you can apply Denoise 40 to a batch of photos without manual, individual confirmation:

1. In Develop while editing a photo that has Denoise - 40 applied, define a preset "Denoise 40" with just Detail > Denoise, Raw Details, Super Resolution checked.  Then in Library, select all the desired photos and do Quick Develop > Saved Preset > Denoise 40.

2. In Develop with the current photo, apply Denoise and then change the slider to 40. In the filmstrip, select all the photos. Click the Sync button and select just Detail > Denoise.

You can also use Auto Sync, but that requires you to first check Detail > Denoise, wait for the batch to finish denoising, then remember to change the slider to 40, then toggle Auto Sync off, which is more error prone. (And Auto Sync is dangerous -- too many reports here of it ending in tears when people forget to toggle it off.)

Auto Sync sometimes syncs a change in the slider but more often causes Denoise to be recomputed as well.

[Lars M�rch]

The XMP files's size has explode. Mine were between 10-50 kb > after 14.4 I have some at 20 mb....
I'm now back to. 14.3.1

[rudigold]

In the latest version of Camera Raw (26.8.1), the automatic creation of a DNG file after using the AI Denoise function has been removed. This significantly slows down my workflow, as Photoshop now takes much longer (~10 seconds or more) to open the denoised image.

The previous workflow — where Denoise created a new DNG file and opened it instantly in Photoshop — was much faster, predictable, and allowed better file management and version control. Removing this feature without any option to re-enable it (like the former “Technology Preview” checkbox) is extremely frustrating.

Please consider restoring the option to generate a separate DNG file after Denoise, or at least give users the choice between both methods. Many professionals rely on efficient and controllable workflows — this update feels like a step backwards.

Thank you.

[johnrellis]

@Incredible_Explorer0544, I did some more investigation of Denoise and better understand what you're observing with regard to size of the Denoise data.

The primary location of the Denoise data is stored in the <catalog>.lrcat-data file (a scalable, high-performance database file). But when you ask LR to save metadata to .xmp sidecars, either manually via Metadata > Save Metadata To File or via Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically Write Changes To XMP, LR will also write that Denoise data to the .xmp file, similarly to how it writes all mask data there, including computed AI masks.

But to write the .xmp file, LR first writes a copy of the Denoise data into the main <catalog>.lrcat database file, and from there writes the .xmp file.  This obviously is unnecessary, since the data is also stored in the <catalog>.lrcat-data file, but that's what LR does (probably a consequence of behavior predating LR 14.4's implementation of Denoise). This is why the .lrcat file gets so much larger. I'll file a bug report about storing the Denoise data in the .lrcat file.

So when you Denoise a raw, LR is writing three copies of the Denoise data: the .lrcat-data file, the .lrcat file, and the xmp sidecar, with the second copy unnecessary.

As discussed previously, the Denoise data stored in LR 14.4 is only a fraction of the size of the DNGs used in previous versions. Even when two additional copies are made for .xmp sidecars, the total storage is still less than with DNG files. But as discussed in my next post, a bug in the LR mechanism for writing .xmp sidecars, probably exacerbated by the large size of the Denoise data compared to previous XMP contents, causes sluggish behavior.

Regarding the particular size of the Denoise data for your camera, the Sony a7 R3:  I download 112 sample raws for that camera from dpreview.com. The normal size of the .arw is about 85 MB, but if you enable Sony ARW Compression, which you apparently have done, the size is about 40 - 43 MB.

The average size of the Denoise data in the .lrcat-data file was about 11.6 MB/photo and in the .xmp sidecars about 15 MB/photo (the representation in the sidecars is encoded text, not binary, so a little large). The median .xmp size was 11 MB, but the largest was 56 MB.  The average you reported for your 500 photos was about 27 MB.

The sizes vary because LR must be compressing the Denoise data. I correlated the size of the .xmps with the amount of detail in the photo -- the more the detail, the less you can compress without loss of quality.  The largest .xmp (56 MB) was almost entirely of tiny deciduous tree branches missing leaves. 

[drtonyb]

"I've been asked to find out what types of specific tasks you execute while Denoise runs in the background under the previous workflow."

This question being relayed by @Rikk Flohr: Photography demonstrates a clear ignorance by the development team of how photographers use LrC. What type work being impacted by this change is irrelevant. What is important is that users cannot use LrC (also ACR and LrD) while Denoising large numbers of photos; for professionals this cost money.

The new non destructive Denoise is good for a few photos, but blocking users form using LrC while 100s are batch Denoised shows little understanding and is extremely bad design.

The implementation of Denoise Amount adjustment for multiple photos is even worse, triggering the whole Denoise process again using AI Update. Since each photo can have its Denoise Amount adjusted without an AI Update, the current process must be totally unnecessary.

[michelleg7073996]

As exUSA said: How about allowing the amount to be set BEFORE it is applied so we don't keep getting the recalculation EVERY TIME? And retain the last setting? The new feature is implemented poorly as-is, it doesn't work as well as it used to.

I agree with this sentiment.  I use denoise at 35%.  Having to watch it calculate 50 and then have to manually fix it is a complete waste of time.  Let me set it first.  And then remember it.  Just as it used to work.

[johnrellis]

@Incredible_Explorer0544, the sluggishness you're experiencing after denoising a large batch of photos is due to the option Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically Write Changes Into XMP. If you uncheck that option, LR should perform much better.

With that option enabled, I've observed in my test catalog that after applying Denoise to a large batch of photos, LR starts saving the metadata to .xmp files. While that is happening (you can see the indication in the upper-left corner of LR), switching between photos in Develop becomes very slow, often taking tens of seconds. You have to wait until the saving completes before performance returns to normal.  And even then, if you apply other changes to Develop settings of the entire batch (e.g. changing Exposure with Sync Settings), the sluggish performance returns until LR finishes saving the changed metadata to the .xmp sidecars.

Normally, LR is very good about updating .xmp sidecars in background without interfering with interactive use. But the addition of the voluminous Denoise data to the sidecars, and most likely the bug with reading that data into the .lrcat database (described previously), is causing the .xmp updates to misbehave. It appears that Adobe didn't test this before releasing 14.4.

The workaround is to disable Automatically Write Changes Into XMP. I very much prefer to have the option enabled (for several reasons), but I'm going to have to keep it turned off until Adobe fixes this bug.