P: Spring-loaded tool feature is misbehaving

[leosn56185363]

Hey some of us had sound out this issue almost 2 years ago with the "feature" on the original feedback forum that had now been closed. Almost a year had past since one of your colleague claimed to have put in a "feature request ticket", and there are still no fix nor update on the progress. 

Again I want to emphasis that this is no longer a feature request (that your colleague had suggested) but a bug as it's not performing in the way it's supposed be.

For a quick reminder to the problem. It's way too sensitive, I estimate a rough 20-30% of the time I switch to another a tool, the feature will activate, and without me hitting the shortcut key, the tool will switch back to the previously used tool. 

In the time since I noticed this issue, I had change and tested with 3 different keyboards, changed my PC, upgraded the hardwares, and move from Windows 7 to 10. Gone through all the photoshop updates, and yet nothing had change, the issue stayed. 

And meanwhile photoshop had introduced plenty of features in between but there was not a single update concerning this issue. So for god sake, can you guys do something about it? 

[J453]

I've asked engineering to investgate this. Hit the upvote at the top of the page if affected by this issue.

[Lil Miss Jay]

I was wondering why I stopped getting updates 2 months ago, y'all closed the original thread. Cool.

This was 6 months ago, as I'd repeatedly attempted to get Adobe to notice that Photoshop's "Spring Loaded Tools" feature is the most garbage feature in any art program out there, and we NEED the ability to toggle it off. This is crippling my work flow.

You know when I wanna switch back to the eraser? When I press E.

NOT WHEN I LET GO OF B.

I PRESS B TO SWITCH TO BRUSH

NOT TO SWITCH TO ERASER AFTER ONE STROKE

LET US TOGGLE IT OFF AND STOP LYING TO US SAYING YOU'RE WORKING ON IT, YOU ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT

[Vaibhav5FE5]

@leosn56185363 
Hi,

I am from the engineering team that has started investigating the issue, and tried the scenarios presented below:-
1. press B(changes to brush tool) > press E(eraser tool) > press I(Eyedropper tool) : changes tools seemlessly when key pressed and lifted within ~1 second.
2. press B(changes to brush tool) > press & hold E for ~2 or more seconds(eraser tool) > use mouse to use erasor on sheet > lift mouse button > lift key & tool reverts to brush
3. press B(changes to brush tool) > press & hold E for ~2 or more seconds(eraser tool) > use mouse to use erasor on sheet >  lift key > lift mouse button : does not revert to brush tool

I would like some help from you -
1. I need a more detailed description(if possible, please include scenarios like I mentioned above) of the problem you're facing.
2. If you could attach a video of the problem with your comments while recording, it would further help me better understand the difficulty you are facing.
3. The last PS version when you think everything was working fine(as per previous comments PS 2018 or 20.x)|

Let's have a fresh start and get to the root of this issue. Other users can provide input from their side as well.

[leosn56185363]

@Vaibhav5FE5 
Hi I am glad someone from engineering is looking into it. I pretty much described it as clear as i could from previous replies. I attached a video of it happening, it happened at the 8 sec to 10 sec mark, when the second stroke with the eraser switched back to the brush tool without me doing anything (fingers were away from neither keys ("E" and "B"), it is quite hard to capture on video because it really seemingly only get triggered on random as you can see from the rest of video. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B7x-G9yvvk6UcJqJm_FF2_KTQCd7_xms/view?usp=sharing 

This test wasn't in done in real work condition where I switched multiples tools around rapidly, so it actually occurred more often because of it. 

As for which was the last version that I didn't encounter this, I really can't remember, because for the longest time it doesn't occur to me that this is a software bug as I always worked and switch tools fast, so I had never assumed it's a bug but more of an issue of mis-hitting a shortcut or a lagging hardware, until after multiple hardware/OS updates later that's when I notice it more frequently even when I slow down my tool switching. 

[leosn56185363]

@Vaibhav5FE5 

Forgot to add, the test I did is very simple, just switching between the Brush tool, and Eraser tool. doing multiple strokes with each tool before switching to other. From my experiences, other tools will get triggered too, from lasso to wand, but I just use brush and eraser because that's the most common tools combination, we, digital artists will use.

I am using a wacom cintiq 16 tablet, but I encountered the same problem with other tablets (old and newer models) before in case you're wondering

[Vaibhav5FE5]

@leosn56185363 
I do not have a drawing tablet(wacom, xp-pen etc.) right now to compare the behavior exactly. But I tried on a Mac in PS version 21.x and the latest one using my touchpad and bluetooth mouse. With current resources I'm unable to reproduce the issue. But noticed one thing that in case keys('E' or 'B' etc.) are pressed while mouse/touchpad are in tapped state(clicked and dragged without lifting.),  swap is not done which is normal behavior.
Were you able to get the issue without using a drawing tablet? It might be possible that a delayed event occurred due to it. Let me know about it and I'll check comments from other users to see if I could find something useful.

[leosn56185363]

@Vaibhav5FE5 

Hmmm interesing, I tried with my own mouse, and I couldn't replicate the issue. So I guess we can zero it down to tablet+software compability issue ?

I also tried swapping the tool while the tablet stylus are in the tap state, it does felt like the bug, with the tool immediately switching to the tool that's hit. But then again, it doesn't explain why the second stroke of the tools will switch. In the video, I only hit "E" once to switch to Eraser, and didn't hit "B" during the tapped state of the first stroke to turn it into a brush on the next...

[Vaibhav5FE5]

It's difficult to debug such issue. But my guess would be that some event - keyboard event or tablet touch - reaches application after some delay, or there's some event repeated. This could also be due to hardware, using BT keyboard but that's highly unlikely since without tablet issue doesn't occur.
Anyway, I'll try to check from app side also, and find if there had been any changes related to event handling before PS version 21.x
Thanks for your input!

[leosn56185363]

@Vaibhav5FE5 Hopefully we can have this issue resolved once and for all

[DeadlyNinja]

Just wanted to chime in that this has been happening since 2019, i remember it was before covid and i was still working from the office, and i think it started in january that year or similar. The sensitivity of the spring loaded function has been up and down a rollercoaster since then, first it was unusable, then it was bearable, now it occurs sometimes but it still is annoying. I really just wish they added an option to disable this, because if this is an issue with tablet/keyboard shotcuts bug i bet with each wacom update and photoshop update it will just get messed up again. just please add an option to disable this, this function is just something no one who used photoshop for a long time uses or wants.

[Rajneesh Chavli]

Hi, 

Can folks here let me know if this occurs only when using a pen/stylus on tablet or it occurs with mouse on PC as well? Based on current replies it appears to happen on both macOS and windows.

The more people that reply to this, the better it'll be for us to try to investigate this issue.

Thanks.

[leosn56185363]

At the current moment, I only noticed it using my pen/stylus as I don't use my mouse for regular photoshop work

The video on the test I did earlier was also done using a wacom cintiq 16 tablet, but I had encountered the same issue using other models

[jane-e]

@Rajneesh Chavli 

Can folks here let me know ...  the better it'll be for us to try to investigate this issue

.

Are you Adobe Staff @Rajneesh Chavli ? If so you don't have an employee badge.

~ Jane

[Rajneesh Chavli]

Yes @jane-e. Haven't requisitioned the employee badge here though.

[DeadlyNinja]

I just tested the mouse and the pen and this bug happens while using the mouse and while using the pen

[Rajneesh Chavli]

Thanks @leosn56185363 and @DeadlyNinja , appreciate your prompt replies.

To distill the behaviour:

• Press B : switches to Brush tool
• Stroke on canvas : acts as a Brush
• Mouse/Stylus up : Brush stroke ends
• Press E and don't key up, i.e. E is kept pressed : tool switches to Eraser
• Stroke on canvas : erases the painted stroke
• Mouse/Stylus up : Eraser stroke ends (E is still pressed). Tool is still Eraser.
•  Key up, i.e. E is no longer pressed : tool switches back to Brush

Can you please let me know if you are encountering the above behaviour? If not, would request you to please provide information as to where the behaviour differs from above.

Others please chime in with the pen/mouse info (along with operating system) as well as in verification of the above behaviour. All inputs are helpful for investigating this. Thanks.

[Rajneesh Chavli]

If the behaviour is precisely the same as the steps I've mentioned above, please let me know as to where you consider it to be buggy. Possibly the last step where the tool switches back to Brush?

[leosn56185363]

Hi @Rajneesh Chavli 

What u describe basically the spring-loaded feature, that definitely work when you use in the way you described.

Our issues here is that, this feature kept popping up, even when we are not using it, you can see it in the video I provided earlier for your colleague @Vaibhav5FE5 

Basically, after we switch a tool (fingers off the shortcut key), the first stroke will work, but the second stroke will switch back to the previous tool (Like the spring-loaded feature, but our fingers had been off since the first stroke)  

[Lil Miss Jay]

Greetings, @Rajneesh Chavli 

The argument in this thread is not that the Spring-Loaded Tool feature is behaving buggy, it's that it's behaving exactly as intended and we are not happy with that, and want the ability to toggle that feature off. This has been asked for repeatedly in Adobe help threads and forums for 9 years, now, and we have repeatedly been lead on by Adobe Support saying they are looking into it.

This is not a bug, it's a feature, and it's a feature we want to be able to turn off.

I want to switch to the Brush when I press B

Not when I let go of E.

Does that make sense?

[brobbeh]

Just to confirm the other user's experience and chime in with my infos: I'm using windows 10 and I get spring loaded issues ( it's activating even though I dont hold the tool shortcut key ) when I alternate tools and clicking with mouse / tablet quickly. It's absolutely infuriating and wrecks the workflow regularly. I mostly use wacoms and it does that on all of them ( 3 cintiqs models, 1 intuos) and I think I've had it on the mouse too.
It also happens with other tools than brush and eraser.

[leosn56185363]

Hi @Vaibhav5FE5 

Can we get an update on the situation? I am not really confident of your colleague @Rajneesh Chavli  here, in spite of him claiming to read through our comments, but yet fail to understand issues we are describing, and that's after I have to go through the trouble of making the video test to show exactly what's happening

[jane-e]

@Rajneesh Chavli said:

"Yes @jane-e. Haven't requisitioned the employee badge here though."

I've put in a request for you.

~ Jane

[Vaibhav5E92]

@leosn56185363 My senior colleague has much more expertise in this field than me. Please be patient.
Kindly agree if I've mentioned correct steps & behavior here. This will help to clear things out for both sides.

[Part 1]
Here's the issue scenario(quickly alternating between tool keys, no long presses) :- 

• Press B : switches to Brush tool
• Stroke on canvas : acts as a Brush
• Mouse/Stylus up : Brush stroke ends
• Press E(& key up): tool switches to Eraser
• Stroke on canvas : erases the painted stroke
• Mouse/Stylus up : Eraser stroke ends
• Press B : DOESN'T switch to Brush tool, but stays Erasor
• Stroke on canvas : acts as a Erasor
  
  [Part 2]
  Users think that spring loaded shortcuts feature is causing this behavior, which might or might not be the reason.

[leosn56185363]

Hi @Vaibhav5E92 @Rajneesh Chavli 

Thank you for returning. I shall apologise for my words.

So let me describe it again clearly if it helps (Or you can watch the video I shared, the issue pop up at the 8-10 sec mark)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B7x-G9yvvk6UcJqJm_FF2_KTQCd7_xms/view

What we are encountering at random is this.

•  Press B, Tool switch to Brush
• Stylus/Pen down, stroke on canvas, as brush (everything normal)
• Stylus/Pen up
• Press E, Tool switch to Eraser (It can be an other tools, I am just using Eraser as an example)
• Stylus/Pen down 
• First Stroke, eraser 
• Second Stroke, Tool switch to Brush! <<< There are no key press between the 2 strokes, and it is not limited to just the Brush tool, but any previously used tool, so the reverse (Brush switch to Eraser, or Lasso tool)

So this is what's happening to us.

As for why we think it's the Spring Loaded shortcut feature, for me personally it is because somewhere during these few years of frustation communicating with your fellow colleagues here and on the previous community forum, it had been implied to us that it is just the Spring loaded shortcut, and it's an intended feature... And considering the unique action of the tool returning to the previously used tool, it does fit the description.

[DeadlyNinja]

I use custom shortcuts, so for me its Q and W (eyedropper and brush) I usually alternate very fast between kestrokes, i never press down on them and make quick strokes or 'eyedrops' to find the colors i want or paint them.Or when erasing (since this action happens when using the eraser-brush combo fast as well) well any combo of keys if you use it fast.

tap Q - eyedropper -  pick a color, lift my mouse/stylus
tap W - make a stroke. lift my mouse/stylus
tap Q - eyedropper- pick a color, lift my mouse/stylus

tap W - the cursor is still eyedropper and im moving the eyedropper around instead of leaving a brush stroke

Now i KNOW for sure that im not holding the buttons to activate the spring feature and my taps are very quick (i know im pressing them too because my keyboard makes loud clicking noises since its half mechanical) I can record this behavior during the weekend if you need to see it in action.

also please understand the frustration on this thread and everyone in it. I personally  have been writting to the adobe community/forums about this bug/feature acting weird for 3 years now, keeping active on few threads that seem to be closed now for no apparent reason, and a year ago one of your colleagues said he was looking into the issue and had sent a feature/bug request (dont remember what it was) and we had no word from him after that. So you have to understand the frustration.

Downloading your each update (which isnt unexpensive) and getting disappointed that this bug/feature still exists.

Just please add the option to turn it off, we're tired of asking about this for years.

P.S.  im on windows 10.