P: Restore halftone screen function for printing separations

[Sinoseps]

Why has the Screen function in photoshop CS5 print dialogue box been removed. ??
This function is essential for screen print separators for the Apparel industry and has been part of photoshop since the beginning.
It may be irrelevant in certain industries as postscript printers can over ride these settings.
However in the printing of Apparel this function is still essential for multichannel simulated process separations. Bitmaps halftones or Colour halftones are a very inaccurate and tedious workaround for this so called flag ship program. I'm very disappointed with Photoshop CS5. I will now be forced to use CS3. Why did I bother with an upgrade. ?

This shows Adobe has a lack of understanding of how its customers use there products.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

My problem is that there is no Screen menu is available in print dialog box in the output section. I am unhappy about the option that i require not being present with the product i have purchased. i could send my work to ECRM as soon as i changed "frequency" and "angle" via "Screen" on "print dialouge" box in PS CS3. I strongly want again this button or i have to downgrade to CS3. I am a representer of crowded PS users who inconvenience about this problem. Thanks for everything

[C. Burks]

Disappointing to see that this hasn't been addressed in 5 months. I just made the upgrade due to a switch to a solid state drive & Windows 7 to improve productivity, only to have it crippled. According to what I was told by CS & Tech support the only option (after upgrading from CS2 to CS5) is to try to find a retailer that has CS4 as that was the last version that supported our needs.

[C. Burks]

I just made the jump from CS2 to CS5 where I found Photoshop no longer offers settings for line screen and screen angles for spot color printing. This is a critical feature for me and most others in my industry. Photoshop is the go to program for color separations for garment manufacturers and this is a crippling omission for us. Are there any plans to patch CS5 or to bring this critical feature back in future versions? I have been told by customer & tech support that my only option, while already owning CS2 & CS5, is that I will have to buy CS4 from a third party and go backward. While this may work temporarily, it imposes additional cost, and does not address the long term issue of the removal of these controls. Garment manufacturing is a relatively small, but constant industry among your customer base and Photoshop & Illustrator are our right and left hands.(Oddly enough - these controls are still available in Illustrator). There must be tens of thousands in the US alone. Can we expect this to be addressed?

[pdmstudios]

Put the Screen button back! I'm going to make some shirts, WITHOUT HALFTONES, because I can't print them! We'll all have to go to CS4. Please find a solution! Bring it back.

[PECourtejoie]

Dave Polaschek, a Photoshop Engineer, explains why the option has been removed from view, and how to create templates in older versions of Photoshop to get screening in Postscript printers: http://forums.adobe.com/message/34381...
This might help you before another solution is implemented in Photoshop.

[Sinoseps]

PE Thanks for adding the link to Daves answer. Not sure why an answer hasn't been more forth coming, this thread has been here ages along with others on the subject.

Those work arounds are not really acceptable for me, having to use an older version of an expensive upgrade to create a file for a template then re-open in new program every single time I change a screen angle, dot, size or shape, is a pain.
I do this for every job and need to make changes and updates to these settings during most separations.
What if I dont have access to older versions of PS. ??

Adobe needs to put in the time and fix this problem ASAP.
So people who spent money on CS5 upgrade can still use a simple function present on all previous versions of PS.

"Sorry we havent had time to upgrade the function yet so we just got rid of it" doesn't really fill me with product satisfaction. So CS5 is a down grade then ? How many other functions have they not had time to fix and removed from CS5.

CS5 has been out for a long time now so time for a FREE screen function patch and upgrade.

Dave Polaschek any news on when adobe will have had the time to do this ?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Can someone not just come up with a plug-in that can do this?

[tman2012]

I am in the garment screen printing industry and I do color separations and sell automated separation software for T-Shirt printer. For YEARS we have all relied on the "Screen" button in the print window to allow us to print "channel separations" directly from Photoshop. We can set the halftone frequency, dot shape and angle with ease and simply print out a channel. This is how T-Shirt printers commonly use Photoshop.

We were all shocked to see it removed in CS5 with the "attitude" that we need to print from Illustrator. I have over 10,000 users of my plugin for Photoshop and my guess is world-wide over 50,000 screen print artists common print this way. We are begging for the Screen button to be re-introduced in CS6. Frankly, I don't really know who to complain to. I get emails every day from my customers who upgrade to CS5 asking "where did the Screen button go?" What seems like a simple change to Adobe has made work harder for the masses who print alpha channels out all day long. Thanks.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I was all set to upgrade to CS5 when it came out. No "screen" button no upgrade for me. Adobe NEEDS to address this in CS6.
You are alienating a lot of loyal users with the deletion of the "screen" button and don't seem to care judging the way our complaints are all but ignored completely.

[PECourtejoie]

Here is a discussion that addresses the issue at hand: http://forums.adobe.com/message/43590...

[Sinoseps]

Ive noticed the screen function has still not been added to CS6. Downloaded the free trial from adobe just now

Thanks adobe...... nice to see you will ignore and a whole industry of users.

I will not be buying a license upgrade for the 25 computers at my company and will spread the word not to bother on the many screen-printing forums.

RIP PSD

[pdmstudios]

Very upsetting. That totally kills the use of PSD in the screen printing industry. Must be nice to have money, and not care about the people that use their software. RIP PSD.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I love to get the latest software whenever it is available, unfortunately I stopped at Photoshop cs3, since, the later versions do not have the screen functions, which is a must for my screen printing business, I think adobe dose not want to sell the software to screenprinters,

[billy47402018]

In CS6 and 5 as well. I need to print dots out of photoshop. This has been removed in the newer versions. Is this going to be addressed in the future?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

At this point it just seems like Adobe is viewing this particular customer base as just a bunch of babies crying because they took away their candy. C'mon Adobe (Engineers). We have all had to deal with changes in Photoshop over the years, the way they changed the airbrush tool from ver 6 and prior to ver 7. That sucked but we were able to work around that and other changes. You are always going to have complaints when changes are made.

This problem is different than key commands, brushes, or a function here and there, it is an integral tool for screen printers who print directly to laser printers especially (or the like). For most screen printers, that print to a laser printer, it is not so much the LPI (which can probably be set on the printer- e.g. Xante or similar), it is all about the line angles, which cannot be set on the printer at least not the ones I've printed from.

You see, screen printers can't use default printing angles such as 15, 45, 90, or 180 degrees. If you are printing on paper these angles might work for you. Not sure, but that is another subject. We, screen printers, have to set our angles in odd positions due to the nature of the mesh we print through. Mesh fibers run 90 and 180 degrees just like any other fabric. Generally, I believe for the most part, many screen printers will use a 22.5 or -22.5 degree angle. For a CMYK image line angle settings might be something like -67.5, -37.5, -7.5, -7.5 degrees.

Why in the world would screen printers use such crazy angles? Do the math. If threads (screen mesh) run 90 and 180 degrees (warp and weft) then what you end up with is a bunch of squares. What do you get when you draw a line from one corner of a square to the opposing corner? A 45 degree angle.

What happens when you try to print through a 65lpi or a 55lpi, 5% dot (at 45 degrees) on a corner of a square? Nothing...that is the problem. We cannot print ink through corners on squares. Then multiply that by how many threads you have per screen. We use mesh that have thread counts as high as 355 threads per inch. That is per inch. Could you imagine what would happen to an image that is 13" wide x 16" high, as a grayscale of 5% or 10%, using 55lpi on a 355TPI mesh? You get a terrible pattern called Moire.

In other words, The image would be jacked up and no customer would want to pay for it. Would Adobe buy subpar t-shirts for their events? I hope whoever you get to print your t-shirts is using something other than Photoshop CS5 or CS6 with a laser printer! They probably updated to CS6 from CS2, thinking they were advancing their Art Dept, only to find out that Adobe screwed them in the process. They probably had to return the supposed latest and greatest Photoshop, because as it turns out Adobe decided to remove a very important tool used by many businesses in the screen printing industry.

Because of driver issues? Really? Is that the best that you can do? We've never had any driver issues using the Print Screen/Transfer function in any versions prior to CS5. Your programs are already over priced and you decide to give us less for our hard earned money.? C'mon guys, we expected more from you. You are a giant in the industry and many of us love your programs. We wouldn't think of using Corel in place of Adobe, that is until now. Are you telling me that a program that costs 1/3 of yours allows you to set screen angles? Really?

I think you guys need to get out of the office and start looking into how many screen printers there are and how big the industry really is. Start locally, then nationwide, then globally. Then ask screen printers how important the Print Screen/Transfer function is to their business.

I can guarantee you that the only reason you haven't heard more people speaking up is because they don't want to take the time to write a lenghty post explaining to you how important this particular tool is to their daily business (lives). So, they return it, cancel their subscription, reinstall their old version of Photoshop, tell all their friends in the industry not to upgrade due to the inability to complete their tasks efficiently, etc., etc.

If this is okay with Adobe, then I guess that is all that really matters. As long as Adobe is pleased with its revenue and doesn't care to increase its own profitability, then who are we to say otherwise?

I can tell you, that I am not alone in this, and that it is not only affecting 20 people. I am truly considering cancelling my subscription to the Creative Cloud. It is a good concept and I like it very much, but I use Photoshop for screen printing. At the moment it is not meeting the needs of my business. If you want to increase your revenue and profitabilty, then you might want to consider bringing this function back.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Insulting the engineers working on this really doesn't help you.
Just because we haven't said much doesn't mean that nothing is happening.

Also, some of us do have extensive serigraphy experience.

Yes, we also know what we're talking about when we explain that the screen feature only works on PostScript devices that don't override programmatic screens (many recent printers can't use custom screens).

It would have been much more productive to simply explain why you need the feature, and explain what problems are caused by not having the feature in Photoshop any more.

[C. Burks]

Chris,
While Van Gestel's tone may have been a little rant-ish my guess is it's a combination of a desire to continue using your product, frustration that the issue has not been resolved, and a plea for Adobe to do so. His post may not have been a lesson in etiquette, but it's how this issue makes us feel and how we talk among ourselves. I think that's valuable information for a company to have about it's products and client reactions, even if that client/industry only represents a percentage of their base.

I was surprised however at your response after noticing you are an employee. You were defensive and admonished him for his manners rather than giving him, or the rest of us insight on where this is going - if the function will be restored, or if there is any effort or inclination to do so. His explanation albeit expressive of industry wide frustration, was sound. He (and many of us) are "frustrated loyal customers" and anyone following this has almost certainly been through numerous versions of your product over many years. I have been a user since it's inception. Most companies encourage their employees to try to assist and retain repeat customers rather than teach them manners. Your response was simply an unhelpful retort to a loyal user.

The only remotely appropriate comment you made was a dangling carrot: "Just because we haven't said much doesn't mean that nothing is happening. " Well, we'd sure like to know what you're doing. Would you care to elaborate?

I work in both the paper and textile industry and can tell you that I and all of my textile clients who run film in-house share this frustration. It is a significant impedance, negatively affects our productivity, and negates the benefits of upgrading to newer version of your product.

The loss of this feature forces us to pursue other options rather than being eager to see what's new in the next version of Photoshop. We don't want another product - we want "our" Photoshop back, but it makes no sense for us to upgrade to a new product that eliminates a key feature. I love Photoshop and have used it since it came on the market. Now on CS5, I have to go back to previous versions to output separations. These will eventually become incompatible with newer operating systems as they emerge. If this issues is not addressed not only will I not be justified in buying or recommending newer versions of Photoshop but even the old ones and I will have to part ways and I will have to go to a competing product.

Prior to this, Photoshop was a no brainer - don't even think about it upgrade to me and all my clients. While I have a proprietary RIP that can be upgraded to work around this problem, not all of of my clients or your users do. They are not all large offset printers, Ad Agencies etc. Many are small operations in textile printing. While the type of user I'm referring to may not all buy multi-user licenses like the big boys, they far outnumber them, are begging for help, and not getting it.

Even in your email you offered no insight on future developments and clearly sneered down your nose at him. Maybe you're having a bad day - but your response wasn't even directed at me and I was offended.

I want the screen function back so I can keep Photoshop as the hammer in my toolbox. The lack of attention to this offers us little hope for that, and your response suggests more contempt than appreciation for you customers.

A Photoshop user from the beginning.

[billy47402018]

Yeah, what they said

[Sinoseps]

Thanks Cliff (Burke) very well put.

But I to share Cliff Van Gestels frustration and have had to try very hard not to go off on a rant myself and vent my frustration.

Chris
I was rather surprised at your response and found it rather frustrating. I've been waiting for some kind of input from a engineer on this tread for over a year now, so far Nothing. I was beginning to wonder why I even bothered starting the thread in first place.
Finally when we do hear from one its just to chide an unhappy customer for speaking his mind.

"just because we havent said much doesn't mean nothing is happening" ???

So far due to the lack of input from any adobe PS employees, Ive assumed nothing is happening and nothing will. A Personal message has endorsed this belief.

So any chance of elaborating as to what is happening- if anything at all- ?

[tman2012]

My two cents again. I am the one who introduced FastRIP over ten years ago and now have T-RIP. I have sold at least 10,000 units to the screening industry in that time. OK, I am no EFI......... 🙂 But, no one called me or my developers. Your comment that "many recent printers can't use custom screens" is a little weird. People print to a RIP and then the RIP prints to a dumb printer like the Epson 1430. It has nothing to do with the printer. It has to do with the RIP. Every person on this thread is probably using a RIP for output and I can tell you that I talk to screeners every day on the phone asking "where is the screen button?" and they are floored when they hear you removed it. If someone at Adobe could explain what the comment about "recent printers" has to do with printing from Photoshop to a RIP then I would love to see it here. I agree that Adobe has pretty much ignored this thread and turned their back on this entire industry. But then again..... guys like me are just small potatoes compared to the thousand pound gorillas like EFI - who rumor has it are the ones who "asked" you to remove the screen button - because it was hurting their RIP sales. Once I heard that story it all made sense. Scott Fresener.

[C. Burks]

Likewise. I bordered on ranting (ok - I crossed the border numerous times) and had to retype things to keep it in check. I have no criticism for Van Gestel - it was real and true and how we all feel - he just said it without the sugar coated topping.

I don't think Adobe realizes the value of of clients that are passionate enough about their product to bother to reach out and rant to them rather than just switching to another product. I still find the lack of customer appreciation in the employee's reply stunning.

That being said, it could be a really tough problem and maybe their hands are tied by external forces like the OS mfrs etc. Maybe it's like having to buy a new Blu Ray player every few years because Hollywood keeps implementing new codecs and mfrs can't keep up with the codecs on the older players.

I understand that it's obviously a difficult problem. But some straight answers like the following would be nice and allow us to decide if we want to be patient or move on.

We're working on it.

We expect it to be resolved with version X

We're not pursuing it at all.

It can't be done.

I've seen a lot of explanations but no answers.

[C. Burks]

..... guys like me are just small potatoes compared to the thousand pound gorillas like EFI - who rumor has it are the ones who "asked" you to remove the screen button - because it was hurting their RIP sales. Once I heard that story it all made sense.

I had not heard that. Adobe, would you please comment on this?

I hope if that's the case, or even if it's something else entirely, you will simply step up and tell us it's gone and it's not coming back. We're all long time customers. Is a little straight shooting too much to ask?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

In most PostScript devices, the RIP is part of the printer, not separate software or hardware. Again, MANY (if not most) recent PostScript clones don't allow custom screens. We've been talking to some of the major vendors about this, and about the customer demand. And in the move to rewrite the print code in Photoshop, screens had problems that would take too long to resolve.

Nobody asked for the custom screens to be removed - and we really don't need more conspiracy B.S. in this world.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Adobe is a publicly traded company - we can't give you much, if any, insight into where things are going.

If you want a feature, or want a feature back: tell us why. Don't insult the very people that have to explain this to executives who wouldn't know a screen from a squeegee, and who work weekends to make some of these features happen. Just tell us why you need it, how it'll help, how it's lack hurts, etc. and give us something to help justify the time and effort to our management.

Also, there was no sneering, just corrections to a rather insulting and counter-productive post.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

We are a publicly traded company. We can't say.