4K Shoot with three cameras...I could use a few suggestions.

Report · Jan 04, 2017

In advance, I apologize for the length of this post. I have some back-info to put out before asking my questions!

I just did a very ambitious project for a small opera compny (Amore Opera) here in New York. I own a Sony FDR-AX100 4K camcorder with which I have made many opera videos. Theatrical shoots are challenging because the lighting is not natural and needs to be constantly adjusted; not only is it unnatural but it changes from scene to scene in a way that sets a mood for the theater audience but often needs to be worked against in the video context. The nice eyedropper in the Lumetri window saves a lot of work for me (sometimes its work needs to be adjusted but it's a good starting point at least; point it at something that's supposed to be white and magic happens!) The opera, if anyone's curious, was Johann Strauss' DIE FLEDERMAUS ("The Revenge of the Bat").

I believe, however, that the only way to deal with scene changes within an act (as well as lighting changes within a scene) is to do a razor cut and apply a new Lumetri effect on the new scene; I'm all ears for anyone with a more elegant idea! Operas are in multiple acts, usually two, three or four. Each may last anywhere from 20 minutes (BOHEME Act 2, for example) to an hour or more, and are shot in one continuous clip.

I had the company rent two additional AX100s for the gala New Year's Eve performance for which I had operators control only the iris; the cameras were locked down in position to the diagonally opposite corners (in this theater I have access to the entire space behind the back row of the audience and the three cameras - one with a camera person, usually me, in the center, and right and left locked down to position). Since I had the rented cameras, I also did three-camera shoots on 12/30 and 1/1 (our final show) with no operators and the f settings of the other cameras set to an average (f8, 18db, 60 shutter speed) which gave usable if not perfect shots about 98% of the time. The shot with operators was significantly better in many respects.

Setting up the project in Premiere (CC 2017) was as follows (of course can be changed but I think I'm on the money): Each 128GB chip was labeled 1 to 3. First evening (12/28) I used the standard left-to-right configuration so center camera was 2. Since the primary shot is always supposed to be the controlled center camera rather than the locked down left and right, I re-thought this for this particular situation and decided on 2 1 3 (can be changed if someone has fits over this and convinces me why!) In the computer ingest software (Sony PlayMemories Home) I rename each clip as <date> <opera title> Camera <number> Act <number>. On ingest I create Cineform proxies (boy those are big, but they scrub a little better than h264). I use the audio track 1 to sync the three cameras in a Multi-Camera source, and trim (I allow three seconds before the music starts and three after the curtain closes, unless there's huge applause at the end). I then create a target sequence for each source, which I use to switch the show as if in real time. I have the number keys 1, 2 and 3 as direct cut switches, and re-mapped Timeline to ctrl-3 (an annoying process requiring creating a blank project but here we are).

Questions:

1.My suspicion is that color corrections should be made at the SOURCE (where all three cameras are shown on separate tracks) rather than the TARGET level, so that switches will reflect the most homogenous color rather than having to re-invent the wheel every cut. I repeat the question above; when changing from, for example the dialog scene when the character Adele the chambermaid is arguing with her mistress Rosalinda to the scene when Eisenstein and his lawyer enter arguing (there's a significant change in both color and intensity of stage light here), is it best to put a razor cut at the scene change so Lumetri effects are confined within the number?

2. Is there any way using the Lumetri process that the color and effective f-stop can be equalized between the three shots in any given scene? Obviously in the environment with audience in the row immediately in front of the cameras it is not possible to call out f-stop changes to the other operators. Also, I have shots filmed where there is no one to make the changes, resulting in usable footage but imbalance which should be correctable in software.

I think I can get an amazing result with this footage; any help the community can give with offering workflow suggestions would put me greatly in its debt (and that of the kind individuals willing to wade through some or all of the above to answer me!!!) I'm willing and able to post sample footage on YouTube, let me know what you'd like to see.

Jay

Camera: 3x Sony FDR-AX100 4K (Pro-sumer)

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

System: i7 in Gigabyte z97 Black Edition Motherboard

Memory: 16GB DDR3

Working on 1 ViewSonic 1080p monitor and 1 Samsung 4K used as a monitor.

Report · Jan 04, 2017

1. Yes.

2. Depends on how different the shots are.

Report · Jan 04, 2017

I would use master clips for basic first light before editing

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/master-clip-effects.html

Using Master Clip Effects in Adobe Premiere Pro - YouTube

then with major exposure issues, use keyframing in lumetri

Animating the Lumetri Color panel in Adobe Premiere Pro - YouTube

are you familiar with scopes?

Report · Jan 04, 2017

First...Jim and Chris, thanks for responding. I know it was a lot to wade through!

I'll try to respond to what I can. Jim, thanks for "Yes"; it's the obvious way to go and I'm headed there.

"Depends on how different the shots are". Three identical cameras, all appearing to work correctly (one my own since 2014, the others rented from Lensrentals.com which was a lovely experience; great people and very reasonable price on very short notice). Same settings on all cameras with the exception of f-stop which was variable on all three cameras depending on which night. ISO/gain identical, shutter speed identical, white balance auto on all three (to do otherwise in this kind of shoot is suicidal; I've tried it). Focus is set to a midpoint (15 meters for center camera, 18 for the outside ones which have a longer throw to center stage; with maximum f4.0 at appropriate zoom levels, and a norm of about f8.0 there isn't much of a depth-of-field issue).

Chris...

I am familiar, have used, but am not an expert with scopes. I certainly think they can be used to advantage, and would be curious which scope or array you would consult first? My greatest familiarity is with the RGB parade and, in a few experiments just now, I was able to help equalize a scene between the three cameras just now using that. If you think I should get familiar with others, let me know but I see that setting based on the RGB Parade and only THEN adjusting by eye will be faster and much more accurate. Let me know if there's a different scope or set of them that would stand me in better stead.

I had had an Adele (we had three, in different performances!) ask for her "My dear Marquis" scene so I excised it to do as a sort of trial balloon. This is when I realized that reacting to color issues on each cut between cameras was going to be excruciating! If you want to see it message me privately and I'll send you a Dropbox link; it's a little under 6 minutes long.

I'll work on the Master Clips idea. Because of the constant lighting variation it may be a difficult fit but since it's all non-destructive it is no bother to try it.

I'm concerned about using keyframes; there are so many parts of Lumetri. It isn't just one keyframe! This being said, I'll review Colin's video first thing in the AM (It's 2AM - going to bed now!) I think doing a razor cut between scenes with significant changes and adding a cross-dissolve so it isn't so sudden might still be an option, and doing it on the Source version (after making an initial overall setting on the master clip; still working on that concept) might solve some things. I then have three levels where I can work: Master clip level, Source clip level (I guess using the Toggle Track Output eye is a fast way to compare both with scopes and my eye), and Target clip level (which should be avoided in most if not all cases but which I used exclusively on the one clip I processed, to my detriment - it would take forever that way!)

Again thanks, and if any other ideas occur don't be shy.

Jay

Update - I think I have the hang of Master Clips at least as a basic thing. My idea: scrub through the entire act (thank God and Adobe for proxies - doing that with 4K is like taking an elephant for a walk in the garden) and watch the RGB Parade react. Find a midpoint and apply the basic eyedropper Lumetri white-balance correction, then check at several points, removing, adjusting curves if necessary, turning Lumetri on and off for the best overall correction. This will correct the most glaring and obvious color issues. Be ready to do more at the Source Clip level. By George, (I think) I've got it (apologies to Lerner & Loewe, My Fair Lady). And thanks again to all. If anything sounds wrong in here please feel free to chime in.

Report · Jan 05, 2017

I have done similar shoots but only with HD and perhaps with more controlled lighting. I always have a locked off centre wide shot, fixed exposure and white balance. This I place on V1 in the edit timeline. Often I repair this shot taking out extraneous exit signs, speakers etc. using Photoshop mattes. The other operated cameras are then placed in sync on higher video tracks, V2, V3 .....I then remove the sections that don't work on the operated cameras. This gives me a checkerboard timeline of shots that work, these are then fine tuned to make the narrative. As each camera is on its own track I colour correct the first clip and then copy and paste attributes to the other clips on the same track. This often has to be done on a scene by scene basis. I get all the clips looking similar then add an adjustment layer to give it the correct feel.

Where I differ slightly in shooting to you, I have all the cameras on a fixed white balance, often about 3900k a good balance between tungsten, led and discharge lamps and set at a fixed exposure often about f4.8. I only ever use 3db of gain. Any noise i get pushing an under exposed scene I fix with Neat Video noise reduction.

Report · Jan 05, 2017

Hi, Richard! That's great if you have two operators you know and trust...AND the company can afford to hire them. Even for New Year's Eve, I needed to get volunteers (I arranged for us all to be well fed, however!)

One of the great things about using the AX100 is that one can zoom in to the image, to a substantial extent, without deterioration noticeable to the eye. The camera is not only operating in 4K but has a 1" sensor and great optics (most consumer camcorders have a gate that closes forming a lens cap around the tiny lens, this one has a full-size lens and actual lens cap). Being able to manipulate the side images the way I described, I got what I believe to be a very good shooting result.

I may experiment in a dress rehearsal with a fixed white balance. I find using the auto one and correcting in post an acceptable solution, even if not optimal. "Optimal" I think would be doing a white-card balance set between each lighting cue, impossible during a stage show.

I'm curious what's on the adjustment layer you describe. I'm now experimenting with an initial Lumetri effect on the master clips; we'll see how that goes. It looks promising at the outset.

It sounds like you're manually syncing your multiple cameras. I use the automated process (select the clips in Project panel in camera order, choose Create Multi-Camera Source Sequence, Choose Sync to Audio Track 1). Once PPro has released the process for use, I load the sequence into the timeline and trim it (-3 seconds from first orchestra sound; +3 past curtain close or a bit more if there's a lot of applause). Right-click in Project panel, choose New sequence from clip and I have an edit-ready multi-camera sequence.

New process with this shoot will require color correction of the Source sequence in the timeline using scopes and eye.

I may consider purchasing Neat Video noise reduction, it looks very effective although my settings don't seem to result in a lot of visible noise.

Again, thanks for taking the time to read and understand my initial lengthy post and for making some really good suggestions.

Report · Jan 05, 2017

"Optimal" I think would be doing a white-card balance set between each lighting cue

Nope. Do it once with full stage white, and leave it there. Changing colors are part of the performance, and not something you need to correct in post.

Report · Jan 06, 2017

Jim & Chris: I think Jim has the better part in the workflow question - there doesn't seem to be a way to animate or keyframe curves! Easiest is to do a razor cut and put a simple cross-dissolve across the cut so it's not jarring. I have to say (Jim) the way a show is perceived in the theater with color changes is quite different to how it comes across in the living room on a TV. I agree it's part of the show but it's jarring to see everything in green or blue all of a sudden. If not too extreme (and FLEDERMAUS doesn't have any weird or extreme lighting) getting all three cameras back to white being white can be accomplished with first the Lumetri eyedropper, then curves against the RGB Parade scope, then my eyes. So far it's looking pretty decent that way. I did a simple performance of ARIADNE AUF NAXOS in a church a few years ago where I pulled a white balance and when the characters went into different light everything was so green I almost couldn't fix it. That was several HD cameras ago (Canon with tape, back in 2008), but it still leaves a bad taste. The AX100 does a great job of setting auto white, and the three cameras, even seeing a different view of the stage and thus the lighting, aren't that far off each other.

So for anyone else reading this, my final choice of Premiere workflow is as follows: Ingest files, load up as multi-camera, sync to audio. Set basic Lumetri color on each master clip (can be adjusted, it's not like it is permanent or destructive). Load multi-camera source sequence into the timeline and carefully making sure nothing's selected put sequence (not clip) markers at each perceived lighting change, then razor cut each marker. I tried using an adjustment layer here, it's a problem only because the camera that is controlled ends up with slightly different white balance and either doesn't need adjustment at all or, more often, needs less and different than the other two. Make judicious use of Copy/Paste Attributes to copy Lumetri effect down the stack (making sure to delete extra Lumetri sections in Effect Controls! Not good or controllable if they add in on each other). It's usually spot on or really close. Once all color corrections seem to be made, make "new sequence from clip" which will be the switchable multi-cam target. Since the colors are not always correct, keep the Source clip and Target clip for the act you're working on available in the Timeline window for closer adjustment. MAKE ALL COLOR CHANGES ON THE SOURCE CLIPS! Dissolves and cuts etc. are for the Target clip.

I think I'll end up with an amazing result, even for the evenings where there were no operators on my outside cameras. A lot can be credited to both you guys so many thanks. I'll keep monitoring this and might pop in again if something doesn't work the way I expect - it feels very right at the moment. Thanks!

Jay

Report · Jan 06, 2017

Been monitoring this, and in all, I think you've come to a good workflow. However ... having done some of the same stage lighting video production, I do go the other way on white-balancing. From experience, as the first one I shot I did do auto, then tried a couple variations.

Fixed WB for the "main" lighting does mean that some scenes may be a bit jarring at first ... but in my experience, most scenes took little if any corrections except for lifting/darkening the midtone values a bit per scene. When I was doing auto-WB, every scene required touching for color, and frequently shifted some over the course of the scene.

I have had a lot less corrective work to do with fixed WB.

"Brightness". That's a whole other issue. Some stage lighting people do change "midtone" brightness of scene-to-scene by several stops, as "hey, it looks fine when it plays ... I don't see the difference", and others seem to naturally ... and carefully ... match "basic" levels between scenes. I've walked the stage of a problematic production with a couple lighting masters using my meter. Pointing out that in the first act they've got this one room at X, and we come back to it supposedly exactly the same in the third act, but ... the lights are set way lower or higher on their rheostats than they were before. Could they just adjust that, as I was doing this at the behest of the director? As someone with a bit of a stage background in college, I know I could have walked the stage, called out corrections to someone in the booth, been done in a minute or less.

But ... no. Wasn't of any interest whatever, so the excuse is "it would take way too much time". Realistically, he was just annoyed at having some non-dramatic person on his stage talking about his production.

So I've never had much problem with WB issues since I locked that down. It's always exposure/dynamic range. Everyone's mileage always varies, of course.

Neil

Report · Jan 06, 2017

it's jarring to see everything in green or blue all of a sudden.

It's how it looked in real life, so I tend to leave it that way.

As with all things, though, editor's choice.

Report · Jan 06, 2017

With regards to White balance, I have noticed that all UK West End productions light the faces with white light, the back light or set colour might change but the face usually stays the same. The same can't be said for provincial or amateur productions

Report · Jan 05, 2017

white balance auto on all three (to do otherwise in this kind of shoot is suicidal; I've tried it).

I've done these kind of shoots and come to the exact opposite conclusion. It's far easier to work with a fixed white balance than one that drifts with changing stage lights. That is a nightmare.

Report · Jan 05, 2017

I'm concerned about using keyframes

I think Chris' suggestion will add unnecessary complexity here. I recommend skipping it and going with your original work flow.