Banding in Premiere and on Export

[eleazarw33251381]

In the past month or two I've noticed Premiere has started introducing a lot of banding into my footage that was not there before. It didn't used to happen before so I think it might have started in the latest update. 

I am importing footage from multiple cameras, but all in various flavors of 10-bit ProRes (LT, 422, HQ), and in log. And as soon as it is imported to Premiere, there is banding in it. Yet, when I open the same files in Davinci Resolve or elsewhere, there is no banding. 

Because the footage is in log, the banding isn't visible until it has been transformed and contrast added, but once there is contrast, the banding is quite prominent.

I always export out my edits 16-bit ProRes 4444 ungraded for color grading in Resolve, and now I have started getting heavy banding. I will attach a sample still, see left and right of subject, in out-of-focus areas. I will attach one still exported out of premiere, and one exported out of resolve to show the difference.

I have tried:

- Checking all Project and Sequence Settings

- Checking source footage

- Exporting footage un-altered as .dpx or ProRes 4444 and then opening in Resolve to make sure it wasn't a Lumetri problem.

- Re-importing footage

I have had no problems before, as I edit in Premiere and then export out ProRes 4444 to color grade in Resolve, and have done this on hundreds of occassions before without problems.

If I am missing something, let me know, but I think it might be a bug.

Thanks.

[Peru Bob]

Just a guess:

Try a clean installation of the 517.40 Studio Driver (NOT the Game Driver).

[eleazarw33251381]

I am working on a Mac Studio 2022, OS 12.6.1, M1 Max 64GB. 

Premiere Pro version 23.1.0

[Peru Bob]

I guess my guess won't work.

Hopefully Neil or a Mac user will reply soon.  I think Neil is only Windows, but it may not be a Mac issue.

[Peru Bob]

@R Neil Haugen 

[R Neil Haugen]

What's the color space of the files? That might be an issue, but there's a more likely cause.

Do you have Max Depth checked for both the Timeline/Sequence settings and in export? I would say make sure to both check the Max Bit Depth and set the drop-down option to 16-bpc both in Sequence settings and in every Export.

Save yourself some time, and make a preset exactly to your needs, INCLUDING MBD set and 16 bpc.

That Max Bit thing used to work automatically, but doesn't seem to anymore, so any 10 bit or better export really needs to have that set. Jarle Leirpoll was the one who first demonstrated that the behavior had changed, back around the 2021 release or so. NOT a good change either.

Neil

[eleazarw33251381]

I have had Max Bit Depth set in my sequence settings, and in my export settings, and I use 16-bpc and MBD set. I have also tried exporting a still .dpx straight from the program monitor Export Frame option, and it does the same thing.

The banding appears in all the log files I've used, REDwidegamutRGB/Log3G10; Canon Cinema Gamut, Canon Log 2; Rec.2020/Canon Log 3, Arri WG/Log C3.

I think the problem is definitely happening before the export, as I can see the banding appear in the sequence when I use Lumetri Color to temporarily grade my clips (which I remove completely before export). The export just includes the banding.

[R Neil Haugen]

Wow! That's just bizarre.

I can't reproduce. I work with mostly BRAW, with some Red & Sony (Sony mostly from A7s3), some Arria, not much Canon, just a couple test files. But I can normalize all the log stuff without troubles.

And as I'm in Resolve daily, I can pass things forth & back without issues either. This has me stumped as to what the hay ...

I assume you're working in Rec.709 mostly. What's the monitor, and is it set correctly to work in limited range?

Neil

[eleazarw33251381]

That's strange. Yeah I've not really encountered this before. I will try a fresh re-install of premiere, and will try as well on a coworkers computer that can access the same project media. 
I do everything for Rec.709 delivery. I have one BenQ monitor fed from an Ultrastudio 3G as well as a 10-bit GUI monitor. And the banding is definitely in the file, not the monitor as you can see from the stills I had attached. 
I will check if it's just specific to my device, and let you know.

[R Neil Haugen]

I would love to get a sample of that buggered media. If you could message me I'd be happy to download via dropbox or whatever and check that out.

Neil

[eleazarw33251381]

Okay I have made some progress and have an update. I tried reinstalling, opening on a different computer, installing version 22, none of that worked.

However, I ran a test where I took a LUT testing image with many gradients on it, and in Resolve I applied a Color Space Transform to make it pretty flat (Rec.709 to Arri Log C), and then created a 3D LUT of the opposite transform (Log C to Rec.709 2.4).

Then I exported the "log" image as a variety of formats (.dpx in 10/12/16bit, all flavors of ProRes, DNxHR 10bit, TIFF 16bit, HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2).

Then I imported all of those frames into Premiere, and applied the Log to 709 LUT, and discovered that ALL of the ProRes clips had banding (LT, 422, HQ, 4444, XQ), but none of the other formats did. So somehow my Premiere must be interpreting ProRes as 8-bit. 

[R Neil Haugen]

That ... is freaky! And an amazingly determined bit of sleuthing too!

I would love to get that LUT and some of the media you got that's all messed up. And do some testing on my kit with it.

Neil

[eleazarw33251381 · Accepted solution]

If anyone else has the same problem, I found the solution to be unchecking "Enable Hardware Accelerated Decoding" in Premiere Pro > Preferences > Media.

[R Neil Haugen]

Well, that's ... interesting!

Hardware accelerated encoding/decoding in the Prefs is supposed to only affect the use of hardware bits for H.264/5 long-GOP encodes. Not even close to the Mercury Acceleration in the Project/Productions setting panels, governing use of the GPU.

But it's messing up ProRes encoding on at least some systems? Wow! Um, that's a problem ...

Neil

[Shingo5E19]

It worked for me too! Thank you!!

I’m using MacBook Pro M1 Max, OS 13.0. Premiere Pro’s version 22.6.4.

It didn’t happen when I tested it on my old Intel Mac. I guess it should be unchecked "Enable Hardware Accelerated Decoding" if using Apple silicon??

[feedthedolphin]

Looks like this is still a problem with exporting screenshots (even with Hardware Accelerated Decoding disabled.) Has anyone found workaround?