Best Practices - how to organize sequences for audio mixing

[Bill Shupp]

Hello!

I'm curious what the best practice is for organizing audio for mixing.  I have my scenes organized as their own sequences, and then arranged together in a parent sequence.  Should I expose all the audio tracks up to the parent sequence and mix from there?  Or should I mix within each scene's sequence?  I'm guessing for the purpose of creating stems, audio should all be surfaces to the parent sequence, but I'm not sure.  Whenever I add audio tracks (like SFX), the parent doesn't see them until I re-add the scene to the parent sequence.

Also, is organizing a film by scene sequences a good way to do it?  Or should it all be in one big sequence?

Thanks!

[rodneyb56060189]

hmmm. You might try posting this question in the Audition forum regarding creating stems and maybe some there can also suggest something re: your layout in PPro for mixing audio once the stems are created, etc.  Mostly you'll probably be wanting to create wav files for your stems and other sound files, right ?

[Bill Shupp]

Rodney,

Perhaps the Audition form would be a good place to post this.. but just to clarify, I'm mostly trying to understand the best workflow regarding scene subsequences, which makes makes it easier to manage things in smaller chunks, and mixing audio for the entire film.  Using submixes is what I've been learning about, both for managing certain effects, as well as for rendering stems.  (I don't know that I have a need for stems on this project, just trying to figure out the best approach in general).

Thanks!

[excited_Genie16B8]

Are you doing the work right in Premiere Pro, or going out to another audio program?

[Bill Shupp]

Jim,

I'm planning to do it all in Premiere Pro, but may have to use Audition for some cleanups depending on how far I get.

Thanks!

[rodneyb56060189]

OK, sorry, misunderstood you. Stems are submixes, usually stuff like "drums, guitar, vocals " etc. So that stem file is a baked in done deal ( with echo, reverb, mix, etc.). If you shot slated stuff with separate sound, that you have to sync in PPro, that is a different workflow ( due to fading in and out and J cuts and L cuts ) than if you shot with sound recorded in the video file ( like mp4 or something ).. So your workflow and how you organize stuff is going to depend on what you shot and what you got.

Good Luck !

[Bill Shupp]

Thanks Rodney... Yes, this was a slated short film, with typical dialog editing.  But there is some music that spans scenes, so I have a mix of the audio being in scene sequences, and some that is in the parent sequence.  So if the need arises for creating stems via submixes (i.e. dialog submix, svx submix, music submix), this setup doesn't work well.  Just trying to get ahead of it.   Thanks again!

[rodneyb56060189]

I'm using an old version of PPro (CS6), so a lot of what you have at your disposal in new version is not even an option in my version. I honestly wouldn't use those options myself anyway, as I prefer to edit things with a gazillion levels of video and audio tracks in ONE sequence. I very rarely nest anything into another sequence.

I am not a professional editor and don't have the expertise you need for advice.

Part of what you need to consider is the size of your monitors and your ability to create bins and rename files to

1) see in monitors all the levels of video and audio as needed

2) remember where stuff is located and what it's called.

I personally don't see any reason for submixes because that is what you are doing just by stacking your audio levels and adjusting the volume via keyframes, and adding effects, etc.  I mean, the outcome on export (and playback) is essentially a submix already.

I'm sure there are people around who have more expertise than me to give you some shortcuts and cool ways to do things using the new version of PPro.

[Meg The Dog · Accepted solution]

Best practice is what works successfully for you. I can relate the workflow I use, whether it works for you is for you to decide.

Edit the sectional sequences with a consistent audio track structure (Lavs + Booms tracks 1-6, SFX tracks 6-10, Temp Music tracks 10-14 etc.) so that all sequences audio content is organized exactly the same from sequence to sequence.

Create the Show sequence with the same audio track structure and copy and paste the content from the sectional sequences in to the Show sequence in proper show order.

Lock all tracks, duplicate the Show sequence so that I have a back up as reference should something be nudged out of sync, and then - working on the Show sequence copy - unlock only the audio tracks and start mixing.

This works best for me as SFX and Music frequently cross over scene transitions, and it makes it easy to zip around the timeline to make comparisons and adjustments, without having to open nests.

It also creates a Show sequence that is ready to be exported to ProTools should the producer want to move the mix there.

As always, your mileage may vary.

MtD

[Bill Shupp]

Thanks for your thoughts, Meg!  This is one of the two main approaches I'm considering.. copy contents into a single sequence with consistent audio track setup.  The other was to "surface" the same track info from the subsequences.  I'm leaning towards the former, but I'll experiment and report back once I get done with the project.

Thanks again everyone for your feedback!

[rodneyb56060189]

One reason ( in my opinion) of keeping it simple with stacking things separately, is let's say you export and burn a BD and look at it a few times and decide, " Boy, that one spot really should be a fast cross dissolve instead of a straight cut."  You can go back to your project and adjust as needed (yet more stacking cause I hate the auto cross dissolve function with 'handles'). But at least you can DO it, without messing up the entire timeline.

I think everyone has their own pet preferences.

[Bill Shupp]

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Rodney!

[rodneyb56060189]

Bill, you can mark Meg Dog's answer as 'correct' and it will let others in forum that you've got enough answers to move on at this point. You can always come back to a thread marked 'answered' to add something later ( like what finally worked best for you ). In essence Meg is a pro and is following something similar to what episodic TV post house would have to do. They get material from shooters every day for 8 days ( described by slates for video and sound ), then they have a short time to finalize the product ( sfx, grading, music soundtrack, etc.) Hence, the sequences and 'show sequence' ( which is the more or less final export and equivalent to YOU doing ONE sequence with everything stacked, cause you already HAVE all the material.)

What she has not mentioned, which is always fun I bet, is the 'reshoots, insert shots, wild track' etc.

[Bill Shupp]

Rodney - Done!

Cheers,

Bill