Can't export to 2.35.1 ratio (720x306) to disc?

[Letty2019]

Hello again....

I created a sequence with 720 x 306 so I can give my footage a cinema widescreen look...  original footage 720 x 480. (don't laugh)

But the only PPro export to disc settings are 16x9 ?  920x1080 bluray or 720x480 for dvd.

I can't make variations on the export to disc ratio?

There are all kinds of possibilities exporting to video files, but seems restricted going to dvd or bluray.

Please tell me I don't have to add fake black bars to my footage

Thanks,

Letty

[Ann Bens · Accepted solution]

DVD is 720x480. End of story. No way to change that.

Just drop the sequence in a 720x480 timeline.

It will give you black bars top and bottom.

Export to mpeg2-dvd (depending on the authoring software: with or with multiplexer)

On a side note even if you could export with 2.35 you will still have black bars top and bottom on your tv which assuming is widescreen and not super wide.

Does not matter if the tv produces them or the disk.

[Letty2019]

Hi, my PPro Savior.....

well, I took my 720 x 306 sequence, and dropped into a 720 x 480 sequence, did an avi export...

and the black bars are burned into the export.

I was hoping to just have image only.....  did I do something wrong?

[Letty2019]

oops, I mean I did an export to dvd and when I viewed the file, it had the black bars burned in.

[Ann Bens]

Letty2019  wrote

oops, I mean I did an export to dvd and when I viewed the file, it had the black bars burned in.

That is what i said.

[excited_Genie16B8]

Cinemascope projects will have the bars "burned in" when authored to any disk format.  No way to avoid that.

The only way to get just the image is a computer file.

[Ann Bens]

Well even it you would play a real cinemascope file on your computer full screen you would still have black bars.

[Letty2019]

yes, but in regards to exporting to disc....  there is no way to just encode only image?  I have to encode black bars as well? 

I can't believe all these filmmakers are burning black bars into their projects for final disc 16x9 output? 

[Ann Bens]

DVD and BD disks have fixed settings. That is how they work.

If you want just the image then encode to a different codec such as H.264 and stick it on a thumbdrive.

[excited_Genie16B8]

I have to encode black bars as well?

I can't believe all these filmmakers are burning black bars into their projects for final disc 16x9 output? 

On DVD or Blu-ray?  Yes.  Even Hollywood does it this way, because that's what those specs require.

[Letty2019]

So all those movies I see on my 16 x 9 HDTV, with my bluray player,  all have black bars encoded right into the disc?

How could this be?  Isn't that a  huge waste of encoding?  Something isn't right. 

I thought widescreen was widescreen and condensed down when played on a 16x9 hdtv.  Just like a computer file would play out.

[R Neil Haugen]

2.35:1 and other wider screen ratios show with top/bottom bars on my 16:9 tv screen. As it is set to show proper ratios.

Neil

[excited_Genie16B8]

So all those movies I see on my 16 x 9 HDTV, with my bluray player,  all have black bars encoded right into the disc?

Yes.  There's no other way to do it.

(Black video doesn't take up a whole lot of data.)

[RjL190365]

Here's the reason: Compatibility (with standalone DVD and Blu-ray players). A disk that's been authored with video that's of nonstandard dimensions, such as what you're trying to author, will become completely unplayable in any DVD or Blu-ray player (if such a disk could be authored). And not only that, but an error message will be displayed that the disk or video is not supported.

[Letty2019]

So, unlike video computer files....  any authored movie that is on DVD or Bluray, MUST be a certain size only... for PPro disc creation:

DVD must be 720x480

Bluray must be 1920x1080

Any variations of the actual image inside those frames, must have black bars burned in with the image to 'fill in' the emptiness.

Does that all sound about right?

[Letty2019]

If anybody is reading this....  Ann is right about the bars...  But having the black bars in your timeline, adds a ton of time when exporting Media to disc.

but... I found a way to export w/ bars much faster.

1) Create the 16x9 frame / drop in your footage.

2) Use an Adjustment Layer and "Crop" top and bottom. Any size you like.  You can still 'move around your footage' to frame it better.

3) Before you export Media, REMOVE the Crop in the adjustment layer and render (if needed)

4) Use the Crop in the Media encoder to crop the top and bottom.  You'll have to do the math on the size, but the Media encoder crop feature has numbers input fields for accurate cropping.

5) Then que it up to AME.  Use "rendered files" and AME will create new bars at super speed.  IF you don't use pre rendered files,  it takes forever to encode.

Why this way?

For some reason, IF you leave the crop in the PPro timeline, AME takes 10 times longer to process it.  Not sure why, I tested twice and got same results. Even when I rendered in the black bars and clicked 'use rendered previews'  AME still took forever. But when Media encoder makes the crop and still using rendered files....  Kaboom! Super fast processing to disc.

I'm using DV, not sure how your heavy duty 4K footage will do, but safe to try this out.

I'm not one to give anybody advise, because I'm still learning, but this worked out for me.

Thanks again so much for all the advise and help!!!   I couldn't do a dam thing without the help here.

Best,

Letty

[Ann Bens]

If you use rendered files you are using a lesser quality codec... hence the speedy export.

[Ann Bens]

If you drop the 720x306 in a 720x480 timeline there are no real black bars. Is a void that shows as black.

You can check this by turning on the Transparency Grid.

[Letty2019]

But isn't the codec in the Sequence settings: MPEG I-Frame.... doesn't that match the MPEG2 DVD export?

If not, if I want to use smart render, how do I match the Sequence render codec with the mpeg2 dvd export codec?

Same issue for bluray.  What codec do I use in  Seq settings for smart rendering?

I really love that smart render because when time comes to export a 2 hour film, smart render will do it in half the time, but if I have to render the whole thing for dvd export, I know it will be 5 or 6 hours, and I really don't see a computer working flawlessly for 6 hours.  I have a decent setup, 32GB, 8 core, 4gb gpu, but even still, I just know it won't work.  I think my chances are better with smart render, but I would like the cleanest image possible.

I'm hoping there is a way to match the codecs in the seq settings and the export settings for dvd and bluray disc export.

[Ann Bens]

But isn't the codec in the Sequence settings: MPEG I-Frame.... doesn't that match the MPEG2 DVD export

Nope

You cannot smart render mpeg2-dvd.

these are the formats Premiere supports for smart render.

Smart rendering in Premiere Pro

[Ann Bens]

If this mpeg-i frame thing was the way to go, would this not have been all over the forum...

Most of us have been making dvd/bd for a long time.

I cannot image a descent computer cannot export an 2 hour movie flawless.

In the old days it took all night: 2 hours usually meant 8 hours of encoding.

[Letty2019]

OOOOOOH NOOOOOO!!!

No smart rendering for simple mpg2 dvd ??

OMG!  I wonder why?  you would think mpg2 dvd would have smart rendering because it's so common?? Is it all bluray now and I have to do an export with h264 bluray to use smart render?  I can upscale my footage to 1920x1080 if that is the case, or leave it at 720x480 and let the player upscale it as per your advice.

So I spent a couple hours bouncing around all the the different codecs in the sequence settings and trying to match them up in the media encoder for smart rendering..... and I'm blowing my fuse.

Can you please recommend (in sequence settings) :

Preview File Format and which codec to use for my standard DV film?

then which corresponding Bluray or DVD export that can use smart render.

Thanks for your help again Ann.

btw, let me know if you are interested in receiving a film credit for "software consultant" in our film's credits.

adding this on: At the bottom of the adobe info page you gave me:  At the very bottom of the box... says: DV is always enabled regardless of wrapper you are exporting to.....  is that for me? Are they saying DV works for smart render?  Just taking a stab in the dark.

Special cases that are supported for smart rendering

• DV/DVCPRO/DVCPRO HD
• MXF OP1a AVC-Intra to QuickTime AVC-Intra
• QuickTime XDCAM to MXF OP1a XDCAM
• QuickTime XDCAM HD to MXF OP1a XDCAM HD
• QuickTime AVC-Intra to MXF OP1a AVC-Intra

  style="border-bottom-color:currentColor;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-color:currentColor;border-left-style:none;border-right-color:currentColor;border-right-style:none;border-top-color:currentColor;border-top-style:none;font-family:inherit;font-size:100%;font-style:normal;font-weight:inherit;margin-bottom:10px;margin-top:10px"

• To smart render to/from QT AVC-Intra, install the QT AVC-Intra codec.
• The format in which you are smart rendering determines the option to smart render in these special cases. For example, if you are smart rendering to an MXF OP1a format, you must enable the smart rendering check box. An exception is smart rendering DV/DVCPRO/DVCPROHD is always enabled regardless of the wrapper you are exporting to.

[Ann Bens]

Can you please recommend (in sequence settings) :

Preview File Format and which codec to use for my standard DV film?

then which corresponding Bluray or DVD export that can use smart render.

You dont seem to understand or want to understand:

There is NO smart render for DVD OR BD!!!!!!!!!!!!

As in DV: Exporting DV-avi to DV-avi means untouched frames wont be re-encoded.

[Letty2019]

I was just going off of what Adobe's manuals are telling me. No need for emotions.

[excited_Genie16B8]

No smart rendering for simple mpg2 dvd ??

Premiere Pro doesn't actually offer Smart Rendering for any format.  Adobe has mislabled the feature.

The 'Smart' in Smart Rendering refers to the ability to recognize GOP boundaries in temporally compressed media, like MPEG2 and H.264, and use those boundaries, rather than the editor defined cut points, for file copy purposes.

The feature Adobe is offering is just a straight file copy, nothing 'smart' about it.