Captions 2020

Report · Mar 27, 2020

I note that Adobe mentions changes to the captions feature in PPro 2020. Try as I might, I haven't found a detailed list or description beyond a single line. It APPEARS that the timings of captions are supposed to be more responsive to the timeline when cuts are made, etc.

Does anyone here have a detailed description of what to expect? For example, I made a recording of a two-act show and someone requested captioning of a couple of numbers in Act 2, which I (perhaps mindlessly) did...and now the request is for the entire show (combining both the Act 1 and Act 2 files, musical numbers only - no dialogue) to be captioned. Under the previous scheme, I would expect to say goodbye to the captions I already made for Act 2.

I'm holding my breath (figuratively, I promise!!) that if I add the caption file for Act 2 to the one for Act 1 it might now take on the timings from the timeline rather than the ones that were burned-in.

I'm aware that there may be numerous reasons this wouldn't work but hope springs eternal and my typing fingers etc. are lazy for making those captions a second time. At the very least I hope I can get a detailed description of what I can expect from the newer version. Thanks all!

Jay

Report · Mar 27, 2020

You should be able to use what you already have, but the devil is in the details.

What did you do? I assume you created an Open Caption stream that matched your sequence settings, and you burned them in.

You can export that Caption stream to .srt, and, in a text editor or third party caption tool (I like Subtitle Edit), create one srt per song. You can do one stream for each sequence (Act I and Act 2?) or a stream per song. There are pros and cons to each approach.

Be aware that there is a quality hit for burned in Open Captions vs regular graphics text. If the results are okay, it may be a little easier to use the captions tool.

Do NOT "duplicate" caption streams inside PR. They can create issues with edits not showing in the Program and Source monitors.

Stan

Report · Mar 27, 2020

Thanks, Stan, that's encouraging.

I still want a detailed description (I'm sure you would have shared if you had it) of what they did. It SOUNDS like they may have made the caption timings responsive to the timeline as it exists, not as it was at the moment the title was created. That would be huge for me.

Obviously, the intention there would be to make it so that every timing didn't have to be re-adjusted when an edit was made on the timeline (i.e. no such changes should be made until the timeline is LOCKED DOWN for other editing but we have these pesky things called clients who sometimes insist on us doing the impossible...)

Anyway, you've encouraged me to try dealing with what I have and see what happens. I recognize that there even might be an issue with captions made in an earlier version of PPro not being able to conform to new standards. I'm basically just trying to do as little as possible by trial and error, and as much by going from what I KNOW the program is supposed to do.

The project is a retelling of A CHRISTMAS CAROL, with music by Gilbert & Sullivan (and new lyrics by a G&S enthusiast). The author/director suddenly wanted a couple of numbers captioned for better understanding. When he saw the results, he then asked for the ENTIRE video to be captioned (the musical numbers, not the dialogue thank goodness!!!) SO I haven't even dared open the project because I dread having to re-write or re-time the captions I already did. Doing the work song-by-song would not be what's needed; the request is to have the entire video subtitled.

As far as output, my best results in the past have been by exporting the .srt and sending as a sidecar file (recommending to users that they open in VLC or 5KPlayer) or posting to YouTube and then adding the .srt there. I would not consider burning in using Media Encoder (have had GREAT results burning in with Handbrake).

Again thanks for answering and for your encouraging words! I do hope someone from Adobe comes in with the actual list of what's new with captions but your obvious experience with this workflow is most helpful. Thanks and stay healthy in this difficult time.

Jay

Report · Mar 27, 2020

When you export your captions, you want to export FROM the SEQUENCE, not from the caption stream. This will use the timecode from the sequence and not from the caption stream itself. This allows you to cut and piece together what you want. So, for example, Open Caption stream 1 (by whatever name) is your current 2 songs. Create new caption streams as needed. Cut out the empty space as needed and put in your new streams. Keep them all ON ONE TRACK.

Export a single caption sidecar file for each final movie. It is important to note that the method for exporting an Open Caption sidecar file is not documented. (See for example PR help for captions: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/working-with-captions.html.) For quite some time, I believed the only method for exporting an Open Caption sidecar file was to select the caption stream in the Project Panel, and then File -> Export -> Captions. But it turned out that you could select the SEQUENCE in the Project Panel and do the same. The first method resulted in timecodes that were internal to the caption stream. The second uses the Sequence timecodes.

With PR 2020, there is now the option to use File -> Export -> Media, and, in the Captions tab, Open Captions now have the sidecar option. Previously, this was only available in Export Media for Closed Captions.

But beware. In the limited testing I have done, you cannot, for example, put caption streams on two different tracks in the sequence. This messes up the sidecar file.

Test your full workflow before you go to far!

Stan

Report · Mar 28, 2020

YAY!!!!

It DOES work!

It ignores the original in/out points and replaces them with the ones on the timeline. This was even true when I copied all of Act 2 and the subtitle work I had already done in a SEPARATE caption "clip". Heeding your warning (but would have done this anyway), the two clips, each synced to the act in which they were created, are both on V2 track. I had but to open them in SubRip to see that the timings are correct. This will save me doing a bunch of repeat work I was SERIOUSLY not looking forward to. Thanks so much.

NOW how do we get Adobe to document this somewhere?

Jay

Report · Mar 29, 2020

Thanks for reporting back. I should poke someone to get the documentation team to update this....

Stan

Report · May 19, 2020

Hi, Stan...strange times, and I'm just getting back to work on this project.

So I have the script (of course not always followed onstage!) and need to efficiently place it in captions and get the start/end timings in the caption tool. Something that I would have figured would be obvious seems to be impossible and requires extra steps that take valuable time: There appears to be no way to quickly copy the position of the CTI in the timeline. I seem to need to highlight the time press Ctrl-C and then go to the caption and paste it in. I could save a bunch of steps and TIME if I could just get this data QUICKLY. It really adds a lot of time to the process. I've searched up and down the available keyboard shortcuts and this one eludes me. Any ideas (or am I missing something obvious?) Thanks...

Jay

Report · May 19, 2020

Short answer: not possible. The method you are using is the quickest way to use timecode specifically.

Other users drag the caption to reposition in the sequence and drag the ends of the caption to reset duration, but there is a problem often reported with that method where the adjustment results in the caption disappearing.

Your plan is to burn in, correct? If you don't have a ton of adjustments, I'd do what you are doing (or otherwise adjust in the Caption Panel).

If you have a lot of adjustments, I'd consider exporting the srt, then do the adjustments in SubtitleEdit or similar. You can import your final video to SubtitleEdit, do the adjustments with a click, then export and import back to PR.

But for burn in, they've got to end up back in PR.

Stan

Report · May 23, 2020

Hi, Stan, and thanks for the candid answer.

My ultimate goal is to get a good SRT and be able to upload to YouTube or send the two files for users to apply as they wish (i.e. with VLC or 5KPlayer). I don't use AME for burn-ins, finding Handbrake a better solution for my needs.

Do you not, though, see the suggested shortcut (copy CTI position) as possible, as perhaps a feature request? I can't imagine it's insurmountable although it's clearly not there now (was just checking in case it was my occasional blindness to the obvious that was in the way); if you think it would be impracticable for Adobe to adopt such a shortcut option let me know and I won't bother.

I didn't have SubtitleEdit until you mentioned it, but have now downloaded and will try it! I keep seeing that Adobe is improving the Captions tool; I have asked for better documentation and I wonder if the team developing the tools might consider this shortcut key (not asking it be assigned to anything, just that it become available). I've been in the current iteration of the feature request area and note that a member of that team is frequently present and answering questions...

Report · May 23, 2020

Feature request absolutely: any robust caption editor must have a "click to adjust caption timing" and a keystroke option for the same.

Stan