Color differnce after rendering

[Dashnill]

I finished my work on Premiere. Color graded it on sRgb and checked it on Rec709.

Everything Looks fine to me on all Color spaces.

When i render it out : this happens.

That do not look nice to me.

Please help me guys.

My Footage was shot in HD 422.

[R Neil Haugen]

What color space is your monitor set to in the OS?

Have you calibrated it with a puck/software system?

[Dashnill]

ist set to sRgb. it is pre calibrated by BenQ

[R Neil Haugen]

I have a BenQ PD2720U. And yes, it comes with a "pre-calibrated" video sRGB mode.

Which is nowhere near usable for proper work with Premiere. Profiled in Lightspace, the whites were around 245 nits, more than double the proper 100 nits level ... the white point was way off D6500 ... and the gamma was off ... and the color profile up the scale was WAY above the delta-E max variant level of 2.3.

So I set the white point manually to D6500, checked through Lightspace (free) using my Xrite i1 Display Pro puck, at around 107 nits. This allowed enough headroom for the following calibration to move the three color channels and still make 100 nits after all corrections.

Then ... calibrated using the i1 Display Pro puck/software, THEN ran a profile using Lightspace{free} and Resolve together.

Perfect 2.4 gamma, perfect D6500 white point at 100 nits, and the delta-E variant curve had nothing even approaching the visible level of 2.3.

So ... after profiling, manual adjustments, and then calibrating/reprofiling, I have a wonderful 4k monitor.

Prior to my detailed, manual calibration/profiling ... it was not usable.

Premiere is built around the user setting up the exact, proper viewing environment. Video sRGB, gamma 2.4, D6500 and 100 nits. Then anything out of Pr will import say into Resolve in that app's RCM color managed mode ... spot-on.

IF you set up your system properly ... Premiere will work perfectly for color. If you don't ... all bets are off.

Neil

[Richard van den Boogaard]

Which software player do you use to review the footage? Is the color shift apparent in other players and on other devices?

[Dashnill]

i checked it with everything. Windows Media Player. the Windows app, quickt time and VLC

[excited_Genie16B8]

"Variants of this question have been covered to death on this and every other color grading forum. The answer is always the same.  The only way to get a [proper] image you can trust is to run SDI [or HDMI] out to an accurately calibrated reference monitor.  Grading by viewing the image in the GUI just doesn't work."  - Jamie LeJeune

DeckLink | Blackmagic Design

AJA Desktop I/O Tools: Work with the Products You Use Everyday

[Dashnill]

I do not believe that. I mean that happens for the first time. I mean in Adobe Premiere it is like i want it, after Rendering it should not Change the Colors again.

[excited_Genie16B8]

after Rendering it should not Change the Colors again.

You can't know that it is until you watch it under controlled conditions.  That's my point.

[R Neil Haugen]

Your thinking on this is unfortunately missing crucial data.

Premiere is tightly color managed including the internal monitors. Those are set very precisely to show accurate images ... IF your entire ecosystem is set for broadcast standards of video sRGB, profile of Rec.709, D6500, gamma 2.4, and 100 nits brightness.

As long as that IS your system setup, in and out of Pr using Or, Potplayer,  and VLC will show a very consistent image.

That BenQ monitor is not actually set correctly out of the factory. Period. So Premiere cannot show the exact image correctly as you aren't giving it the environment it needs.

Get an i1 Display Pro calibration setup, bought directly from Xrite. Download the free Lightspace calibration app from lightillusions.com.

Turn ALL  auto and power savings stuff off in the monitor, go to User settings. Use the profiling part of Lightspace to set your brightness to about 105 to allow a bit of headroom. And get the bright RGB settings close manually.

Then run the Xrite calibration process using the Advanced settings and Rec.709, setting video sRGB, gamma of 2.4, and native black point.

When done run the Lightspace profile process to check the work.

My BenQ PD2720U is way off in its standard Rec.709 mode. WAY off.

Following the above process, its profile in Lightspace would be entirely acceptable for a high-end broadcast monitor.

And your work will be spot on.

Neil

[Dashnill]

Hey Mr Haugen. I get your Point. your way is actually the Right way - but still im sure this is but of premiere.

i am Shooting since 2 years with a blackmagic Ursa mini - and this Problem now is Happening to me just now after These updates. i mean i earned Money with this allready for severel years, how is it possible that now my monitor has a failure.

[R Neil Haugen]

It's not a failure, nor anyone's fault ... it's basic math. Which is probably even worse, actually.

Although it is fixable with enough attention.

On my system, which is fully calibrated and checked by profiling with Lightspace, I have no difference whatever between 2015.2, 2017, 2018, 2019, and Resolve (paid).

I know a fair number of colorists that I work with all the time ... who have no similar issues. Again, on fully calibrated Rec.709 systems ... and that is both calibrated and then profiled to check the calibration accuracy.

As to why your system may react to one version differently than another, I haven't a clue. Neither can I replicate. Unfortunately ... as if I could, well ... that would be a way to try and give specific help to you. My main purpose here and elsewhere is simply to help people get the work out the door. Reality-ville.

Which brings my mind back to the basics of any individual's setup. Premiere is tightly color managed as to how the internal monitors map signal values to the display. But that relies on the OS and the display being setup to "broadcast color management standards".

If the display varies from those standards, what you see "inside" Pr and "outside" Pr can have discrepancies. Actually, probably will have discrepancies. No way around that. It's why there's such a problem with the newer Macs with the Apple specific (and kinda oddball) "P3-Display" ... space. Which is a mashup of the P3 color gamut (wider than sRGB), the Rec.709 white point of D6500 (different from either previous P3 white points) and ... a gamma of 1.96, WAY off from either the P3 normal gamma of 2.6 or even the Rec.709 broadcast gamma of 2.4.

Content that looks appropriate on the P3-Display screen, well ... will be mapped very differently in any broadcast-standard Rec.709 system, as the numbers for each pixel go to different "places" in each system.

As to the client and thee both being angry, well ... yea, that's totally understandable.

The best I can do at this point is refer back to the above ... and see if franciscrossman​ can find a few minutes to pop in here.

I do get your frustration. Seriously. Talking at NAB with my colorist buds, a constant topic was "How are you getting your clients to view on something appropriate to what you're grading for them?". Answers even included having a number of iPads to loan out, as interestingly ... those show b-cast material quite nicely. And one had an issue where the Corporate guy that had to approve couldn't come to the grading session, viewed the results on his shiny new Mac, rejected ... and they had to regrade to look good on his Mac. Then ... when the project was sent for b-cast and web release ... was rejected from b-cast and a lot of web viewers complained of image quality. But some loved it. So they had to go back to the original grade, and the Corporate guy was ... still not pleased.

Yea ... the mashup of systems, screens, apps and such out there now make for a very challenging ... life. I've got a grading project that seems to have some issues for the client that I feel are based entirely on my system being Rec.709, his being P3-Display. He doesn't think that sounds like it should be an issue, but every problem he has with color/tonality sounds like the differences between color display numbers.

On my new monitor, I can set multiple calibrations for spaces ... including P3. So I think I'll create an Apple-complying P3-Display profile, send him a sample clip, and ... bet he loves it immediately.

Neil

[NRS-Media]

Hi Dashnill,

I am having the problem too. What seems to be happening, is that when I export, the colour looks like I have applied the lumetri technical preset "Full to Legal Range". When looking at the lumetri scope on a file that I have exported, the waveform shows that the range from black to white has been constricted as if that preset was applied, even though I had not.

I tried applying the "Legal to Full Range" preset to my original timeline before export, and the waveform shows black being below zero. But after export the output file looks like I expect and when I bring it into Premiere and look the scopes, black and white are where they should be.

I tried exporting the same materials in Premiere Pro 2017 which I still have installed, and everything worked perfectly without having to mess around with lumetri technical presets. This issue is a bug in Premiere Pro 2019 (13.1.2) and it breaks the ability to trust in its exports.

My colleague is still on 13.0.2 and does not have this problem, it was introduced in 13.1.0.

[NRS-Media · Accepted solution]

Hi Dashnill,

I have a workaround solution for you, until this bug in Premiere is actually fixed.

In the sequence that you are going to export, add a new video track to the top of the stack. In that top video track, place an adjustment layer and make that adjustment layer cover the entire duration of your sequence. In the effects tab go to Lumetri Presets > Technical and drag the "Legal to Full Range, 12-bit" preset onto the adjustment layer. Now your sequence is going to look wrong to your eye and over range on the lumetri scopes but ignore it. Export your sequence with this adjustment layer enabled, this should cancel out the effect of the export bug.

Once the export is complete, bring the exported file back into Premiere and compare it to your sequence with the newly added adjustment layer track turned off. Your video export should match what you intended in your sequence.

[Dashnill]

Yep it is workin. Whaat a struggle since days. The Client is Angry - i am Angry ^^.

do you know if this Problem is known by Adobe so they fix it with the next update ?

[NRS-Media]

Hi Dashninll,

Mr. Haugen also let me know in another thread, that on export, checking Render at Maximum Depth is unnecessary when you have a dedicated GPU in your system. Premiere is always rendering at Maximum Depth when you have a dedicated GPU. That option is for systems rendering on the CPU only in software mode. So being sure to keep that box unchecked on Export also fixed the problem for me, without having to mess around with adjustment layers that only add to the render time.

Thank you Mr. Haugen for explaining this.

[R Neil Haugen]

This all can be so amazingly complex and ... obtuse ... at times.

Happy to help, as hey ... I'm still puzzling out some of this. And pushing my various acquaintances for exact details and implications.

Neil

[francisco xavier]

Actually I just found out that this is a problem from mac preview and quicktime player. After try out all the solutions proposed here, I just played the video in VLC and it preview like in the premiere window program. So the problem is the MAC OS unfortunally,

[Shivangi_Gupta]

Hi there,

Thanks for sharing your experience. We're sure it will be helpful for others too.

Regards,

Shivangi