Color Shifting Issue in Premiere Pro 2024

Report · Mar 18, 2024

I've been having an issue with Premiere and AE on my computer for some time now. I shoot my video with a Canon r5. The quicktime display on my computer looks as it should, but the preview window in premiere looks overly contrasty/saturated. I've gone through all the color space management options that I can and nothing seems to fix the problem. I'm editing on a Mac Everything is Rec.709.It's quite frustrating. The same issue happens on my mac desktop and laptop.

Please help,

Thanks!!

Report · Mar 18, 2024

Then your color management controls are not correctly set as a group. Those are interactive, and you can't simply set one, try, undo, set another ... they don't work that way.

On a Mac you have two other issues due to well ... Apple always choosing to be unique.

They chose to apply the Rec.709 camera transform as the display transform ... WRONG. This affects the tonal values of the viewed image (not the underlying file data) ... the Macs will display the shadows lighter than a correct Rec.709 display will do. This is also part, but not all, of the perceived 'saturation' issue.
From a colorist's recent (and very rigorously thorough) testing I've seen, they also clearly do not properly remap the Rec.709's sRGB color primaries and individual hues within the monitor's P3 color space. Resulting in a good share of the color issues between Rec.709 off and on a Mac Retina.
To further show how this is an Apple caused issue, there are now Macs with "Reference Modes" for their monitors. On those Macs, when using the Reference mode for HDTV, suddenly ... the image on-screen is bog-standard Rec.709, and matches that within Premiere set to viewer gamma 2.4 precisely.

So your Mac is not showing a correct Rec.709 image unless you are using Reference mode set to HDTV.

Once you understand that, the rest can be controlled within ... what anyone can control. Do this for Rec.709:

Set Display Color Management on, and also (for Macs) Extended Dynamic Range.
Set both auto detect log and auto tonemapping to on.
Set the Sequence CM to Rec.709.
Use only export presets that do not include HLG or PQ in the preset name.

Now for the hard part!

The other Premiere color management setting you need to deal with is a pick your poison thing, unfortunately, due to the above bullet points. But it is what it is, so let's deal with the options directly.

What do you need to produce for?

That is the main question to answer to make one of the following choices.

I only care about how this looks on Macs without Reference Modes in QuickTime Player.

Ok ... set the Viewer display gamma option in Premiere's CM settings to QuickTime/gamma 1.96.

The good ... outside of Premiere, on Macs without Reference modes, it will look the same in QuickTime player as within Premiere Pro. Awesome, right?

The not-so-good ... on all other systems, whether Macs with Reference modes or broadcast-spec systems or PCs and Android devices, most TVs ... the image will be way too dark, many shadows simply crushed, and it will be oversaturated.

But I need a professional looking export file!

Also simple. Set the Viewer gamma option to 2.4/broadcast. Like nearly all colorists do. Grade with a correct image, and after export, let it go out into the Wild where you have no control whatsoever.

The good! ... now your media will look like all professionally produced Rec.709 media on any particular screen. As ALL Rec.709 media is graded on screens under full Rec.709 specs, including gamma 2.4 displays. Period. You can't pass b-cast QC machines otherwise.

The not-so-good ... yea, on non-reference mode Macs, it's going to look a bit light and low in saturation.

But did you realize that's what you're getting on everything? As ... you are. You're not seeing the same image I see on a b-cast spec system, or my Android tablet, for any professionally produced show.

Colorists are taught outta the box that you grade to the Standard. Strictly and only! But you also must understand no one watching your program will ever see exactly what you saw on your screen. No matter whether viewed via broadcast, streaming, or theatrical release. You grade it tothe Standard, and ... let it go. "You can't fix gramma's green TV."

This is why most colorists have clauses that specify that all tonal/color corrections requests can only come from being viewed on a specified, calibrated/controlled screen and viewing environment.

Isn't there something in-between?

Well ... sorta maybe. Set the Premiere color management viewer gamma option to 2.2/Web. Nothing professional is produced with this, but ... it will be a little light on a Mac/no-reference-mode, a little dark on a b-cast spec system ...

And note, when people say "the web is sRGB/2.2 anyway" ... that refers to still images. Web video is still Rec.709/2.4.

The good! ... well, sorta? The image will be not quite so bad either Mac or non-Mac.

The not-so-good ... the image won't be pretty close to correct about anywhere ...

That's why I list this as a pick your poison choice.

Report · Aug 04, 2024

This is the most simplest and understandable solution to this problem I've read until now. Just wanted to ask that if we grade in 2.4 Viewer Gamma in Premiere, set Mac display to HDTV Rec.709 and export for web, do we have to apply a gamma corretion LUT while exporting? Or that LUT is just for users on Mac to view it correctly in Quicktime, Chrome, Safari etc?

Report · Aug 04, 2024

The gamma LUT is only for those (edit: phone spelling correction is a pain!) using a Mac without Reference modes, and even then isn't what I'd use.

If I were gonna put that as my chief concern, and not worryabout everyone else, I'd set my Mac's Viewing Gamma preferences in Premiere to 1.96/QuickTime.

For most people?

IF in a fairly dark room, use the Gamma 2.4 preference.

IF in a normally lit, fairly bright room, use the Gamma 2.2 in Viewing preferences.

Report · Aug 05, 2024

I moved this post to the Discussions forum.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

Report · Aug 05, 2024

So I edited a sample footage in Premiere Pro latest version with Colour
Management on and Viewer Gamma 2.4. Then while exporting I added the QT
Gamma Compensation LUT. The exported file looks the same as in Premiere
while watching on Quicktime. I uploaded it to Youtube and watched it on an
Iphone, android phone, a Windows PC with srgb profile and on my TV. It
looks great everywhere. Then I exported the file without any Gamma
compensation LUT. The video was less contrasty and a bit flat while
watching on Quicktime and all other devices mentioned above. So in my case,
this LUT works for me as the exported file looks like what I want it to on
my Mac and on the internet.

Report · Aug 05, 2024

My Mac has reference modes and I've set it to HDTV Rec 709

Report · Aug 05, 2024

At this point, I'd be real curious what a profile run by say ColourSpace would show for your monitor's response in Rec.709.

Note, that's not a calibration of the monitor. A profile is a check of the monitor's output via reading several hundred color patches. You then get a set of charts showing exactly what you are getting there.

As for anyone running any computer monitor, without some pretty high-end calibration setups, you don't know exactly what you're getting. I've had several monitors that came with pretty certificates of how tight their Rec.709 was calibrated at the factory.

None even had a tightly set White Point, all tended to be way too high in blue. And all were way over the 100 nits max white for correct Rec.709 grading in a semi-darkened room. As in 250-300 nits ... yowza!

We're not even talking hue shifts at different points in the brightness range, they didn't have the white point nor nits brightness even close to correct.

And while some Apple monitors are fairly close, especially (oddly enough) some of the high end iPads, most still aren't "on". The HDTV setting at least seems to get a better display transform and hue remapping. But if the thing is a bit bright, well ... that's still off.

That's why professional colorists never trust a signal coming outta the computer itself. They all use a breakout device ... BlackMagic or AJA ... to get a clean signal out of the computer, without the OS or system hardware (as in GPU) touching the data.

Then using calibration gear they generate LUTs either to be stored on-board in the monitor itself or on the breakout device ... those are to get that monitor to 'correct' standards.

Then they run a profile to check the results of the calibration ... and only after the profile charts are all showing good results do they accept the monitor as accurate.

Just for informational purposes. And yea, I'm running a profiled reference ... well, because, it's what you do.

Report · Aug 05, 2024

Well this was quite some information which went over my head. After watching Youtube videos on this topic and reading stuff online, I've realised that for some people, using that QT LUT at the export works and they upload their videos on Youtube. For some, just disabling the Display color management worked. For one guy, disabling Color management and working in Web 2.2 Gamma worked. For me, enabling Color management, working in Gamma 2.4 and exporting with QT LUT worked. Most importantly, the LUT affected the file on all devices, not only Quicktime. So I was getting the desired results which I was viewing in Premiere.

Report · Aug 05, 2024

If it works for you, I'm a practical guy, so fine!

And if that went over your head, wait till you get into DolbyVision HDR trims and stuff ... 😉

Color management is really a pretty required 'thing' anymore, you can't just wing it. And the reason that those YouTubers were getting their results is they started "off" on something to begin with, and found a "fix" that ended up with getting the stuff sorta normal.

However, that is always going to be dependent on what mess you started with. Change OS, change a monitor, updated software, it can all go flooey on you again.

It's actually easier to figure out how to start correctly ... and then to stay in the proper "lane".

Report · Aug 05, 2024

Yes you're right that we should know how to start correctly and then stay in a proper lane. Something 'correct' which I learned was to use HDTV reference mode on the mac and turn on display color management in Premiere which matches Viewer Gamma 2.4.

If it works for you, I'm a practical guy, so fine!

And if that went over your head, wait till you get into DolbyVision HDR trims and stuff ... 😉

Color management is really a pretty required 'thing' anymore, you can't just wing it. And the reason that those YouTubers were getting their results is they started "off" on something to begin with, and found a "fix" that ended up with getting the stuff sorta normal.

However, that is always going to be dependent on what mess you started with. Change OS, change a monitor, updated software, it can all go flooey on you again.

It's actually easier to figure out how to start correctly ... and then to stay in the proper "lane".

By @R Neil Haugen

Report · Aug 05, 2024

There is one assumption in this thread that I must correct.

Colorists do not ever expect that anyone, on any screen, via any delivery system, will see even close to what the colorist saw while grading. Period.

For most editors, please ... re-read that!

So if you are trying to get other screens to see what yours was, it will fail, guaranteed.

Why?

Because no two screens are alike.

All that calibration, special expensive monitors, and external LUT boxes colorists use? That is NOT so their reference monitor looks identical to any other reference monitor.

Because they can't even do that with two "identical" monitors, side by side, calibrated with the same system, and fed the same signal. There will be differences. Not just metamerism, which can be major and will always vary per screen. But all sorts of other things, as the electronic parts that make up a modern monitor are many and all will have small variances in performance. So each monitor is a compendium of the variances of the hardware within.

So why do colorists care about calibration and profiles at all?

What they do is try to be as close to "the standard" as possible. Because then, and only then! ... will anything they produce, when viewed on any screen out there, appear similar to other professionally produced media viewed on that screen.

That is their only goal. It's the only goal you can acheive in the screen lottery.

Report · Aug 05, 2024

True. You can do your best to be as close to standard as possible because that is what we can control. What I meant by the video being the same on all devices after using the QT LUT on export was that the LUT wasnt only affecting the view in Quicktime, rather everywhere. Obviously, it was a bit different on each screen but that was just because of the difference in screens, the file was the same. Because without the LUT, it showed a bit flat on all the devices.

Nevertheless, Thank you for your input! I definitely learned some important stuff.

Report · Aug 06, 2024

Hey all!

Is anyone having issues of flashing after export? Videos looks normal on my computer but after I export the color grade flashes between the grade and the raw file.

This happened only after I updated to the latest 24.5.0 version of PP on my mac.

Any help is super appreciated.