Colour grade not exporting with Premiere Pro

[jsyboy75]

Hi all, I may be doing something rather basic but here goes:

I am trying to export ANY file type from Premiere Pro CC - H264, ProRes, even still Jpeg images all have the same problem - some, not all (I cannot tell which) of the colour grades are not exporting so the Mp4 or .mov or whatever comes out is washed out - but not completely back to Slog.

It doesn't matter what the footage is - I tried reimporting MP4s and ProRes files and re-exporting them, I tried faking the grade but that just made a mess.

Any ideas? Doesn't make any difference if it's with LUTs or without - same issue

Machine is iMac Pro, Graphics card is Radeon Pro Vega 64 16GB, IOS is High Sierra, Adobe CC is up to date (brand new install)

Many thanks

Alex

[jsyboy75]

Incidentally this became a serious problem this evening resulting in a late client delivery. Exporting is a fairly key part of making videos so I will be looking for a solution to this as soon as possible.

[R Neil Haugen]

To be certain ... how are you exporting, direct from PrPro or Media Encoder ?

If you import the expirted clip into PrPro does the clip look as it should?

What are you viewing it on outside of PrPro?

Neil

[jsyboy75]

Tried both, also tried exporting from After Effects.

[R Neil Haugen]

And my other questions?

[jsyboy75]

Sorry:

Tried exporting from PrPro and Media Encoder - same issue.

Importing the clip back into PrPro makes it look over saturated on the timeline (weird!)

Viewing it on the iMac but client is using a PC - same issue

[R Neil Haugen]

What is the monitor color space? Pro video is pretty standard Rec709, which is designed to be sRGB and gamma of 2.4. Some Mac monitors I know are in other color spaces, which might be an issue out of PrPro.

Neil

[jsyboy75]

Display profile is set to 'iMac' but either way I need Premier to export what I am seeing when I've graded my project and sent it to the client.

[R Neil Haugen]

PrPro will attempt to show Rec709 in the program monitor. If your monitor is set for something else in the OS you might get a mismatch between what PrPro is expecting and what is happening. At that point, trying to get a precise output is nearly impossible.

Which is why having a monitor profiled and calibrated in Rec709 is really needed. Or better yet, a broadcast monitor controlled via external SDI connections. But at least, a monitor with a calibrated Rec709 profile set.

Neil

[jsyboy75]

ok, I follow that, thank you. Surely as the iMac Pros are targeted at Pro Video makers one of the profile settings will be the correct one?

I’m still a little confused though - whatever setting my screen is on, the film exported from Premiere looks different to the film IN premiere - whether it’s watched on my monitor or someone else’s. I just want the same thing to be put out from my expensive creative cloud using my expensive iMac

[Peru Bob]

How are you viewing it?  In what application?

Is the monitor calibrated?

If you import the exported file into Premiere Pro, does it still look different?

[jsyboy75]

I am using an iMac pro to edit and monitor - i just have that one screen.

the issue here is very simple - Premiere Pro is exporting a file that looks different to what I see within the application itself. Project is colour graded within Premiere Pro using standard Lumetri settings and presets, with or without LUT. It is a fresh install of the latest CC.

This was not a problem on a 2011 iMac, or a 2014 laptop - it is not working correctly on an iMac Pro. If I take the exact same project and footage to those machines there is no problem - but I need the new iMac to work.

My only current solution is to ‘over grade’ my project so Premiere Pro washes it out enough to look correct - this is obviously not a professional solution.

No other Premiere user I know has seen this issue before and we’ve tested it on a second iMac Pro with the same error occurring.

[jimbo_hippo]

If it's still happening when you do a direct export from Premiere I'm at a loss. A common one with grading not appearing is when it goes out to Adobe Media Encoder. You have to ensure that In AME preferences, you have unticked the 'import sequences natively' option. More discussion here but may not be relevant. Worth a look though.  Re: Lumetri Color effect not rendering when sending to AME queue

[jsyboy75]

Yes, thank you, I tried the Native option - same issue.

I have just run the following test, which to me confirms it is a Premier Pro export issue:

Set iMac Monitor display profile to "iMac"

Export file from premiere pro to H264 (or anything, it really doesn't matter)

Open H264 in Quicktime and put it next to the Premiere Pro Programme monitor for comparison.

The two video images are different - the export is washed out.

Leave everything on screen, in place - not even moving windows around - open Display profile settings for iMac and CHANGE them to sRGB IEC61966-2.1

The Exported QT movie is now the same as the Premiere Programme monitor - to clarify, the QT file changes but the Premiere Pro Programme window remains the same. - Flick back and forth between the monitor settings and the QT movie changes but NOT the Premiere Pro image.

When the H264 is uploaded to Vimeo and I look at Vimeo on a different device Vimeo displays the altered exported image - ie, the more washed out version. If I open Vimeo on the iMac and flip between the colour profiles I can see the colour changing on the uploaded video.

Whatever the iMac is showing pre upload doesn't really matter - Premier Pro is NOT exporting the same looking video that you see on the screen within Premiere Pro. Given that you cannot know where the film will be shown it MUST come out as Premiere Pro intended it - so this remains the problem - How do you export what you see in Premiere Pro so it looks EXACTLY the same.

[R Neil Haugen]

As noted in the other thread, you proved that PrPro is exporting a Rec709 file designed for sRGB at gamma 2.4, and when displayed either on a monitor set for that or in a properly color managed player outside of PrPro it shows correctly.

And when played in a non-color managed player on a monitor set for some other color space, the player does not correctly show the file in Rec709 gamma 2.4.

Exactly the results you list.

If thousands of pro's use this every day without issue to put out broadcast work that has to pass stringent QC or be rejected ... learn how to set your system for how this works. Like everyone else who's managed this.

And accept that you cannot force all other devices and layers to properly work color management as most don't.

Neil

[jsyboy75]

So you can’t monitor and grade on a £6,000 iMac pro unless you add a separate screen?

not sure I do accept that!

[R Neil Haugen]

It doesn't matter what brand gear you've got, only what the setup is ... that you have congruent color spaces for the apps you're working with and the deliverable requirements for your media.

And I'd note, Apple's lack of support for modern desktop systems over the last four years has caused one of the most Apple-centric groups I've ever been around, colorists ... to go to to PC's, or in some cases, dual-boot PC/Linux rigs. Until the latest 'release' (are they actually shipping yet?) it had been five years since the big Mac mobo had been made. Things have changed a bit since then.

So several of the colorists that I know, who've been a co-editor with Van Hurkman, teach at NAB and elsewhere around the world ... have gone PC. And teach how to do so, to get more power, far more adaptability to individual tastes & needs, at a lesser cost. They're still putting upwards of USD $8,000 in a suite, mind you ... but then with the large Flanders monitor, another monitor for scopes, and two working monitors, external boxes for connecting the Flanders & scopes monitors, sound gear, and pro-level calibration gear, it's a ton of stuff.

But when they were still on Macs, they didn't even grade on the main screen of their Macs, of course ... they had a calibrated Flanders rig on a BlackMagic i/o box for program monitor work within PrPro or the dedicated out for Resolve, which is of course the app they use most.

Back to your setup ... you can grade on that, IF you set your monitor to the right profile, the sRGB one, as you've shown. AND then run a puck/software calibration setup (at the least) for Rec709. Several of the folks around here and especially on colorist forums would still insist on a Flanders or other high-end pro broadcast monitor connected through a BM LUT box with SDI outs.

Someday we may get controls to manually manage color between the system and PrPro like Resolve has, so you can tell it what parts use what so it shows you what you need to see. But even then, if you turn around and play that in a non-managed video player on a screen set to some other displays space, it could NEVER show exactly what it would on a properly set Rec709 setup, they don't use the same color space.

One of the issues with PrPro is that some folks are now getting specs to deliver in P3 or Rec2020, and PrPro isn't really setup to do that. Which is why we all need more color managing tools so PrPro isn't only Rec709.

Neil

[jucabTK421]

Neil, what about when Premiere has been exporting fine until NOW. Because suddenly TODAY it is not exporting my color work. In fact, on same project (a series of vids all shot the same day with the same cameras) one video exported fine with all the color work, and now the 2nd video is not exporting with color work at all. Footage looks raw. WTF?! same monitors, same software version, different results.

[R Neil Haugen]

What does it look like when re-imported into PrPro?

Neil

[jucabTK421]

Just returned from lunch. Let me try that real quick.

[jucabTK421]

Yeah, bad. No color work exported. The first video has the color work done. Not the second. Also, now the other annoying error is happening where I have to restart Premiere with CTRL/OPT/SHIFT until the audio playback returns. That error also very annoying... Oh boy, Premiere on a Mac just blows I guess? So sick n tired of Apple anyway...

[jucabTK421]

So here's a deal. When I remopved the Lumetri preset and just did fast colopr corrector (the obsolete one) and some Brightness/Contrast all manually and it exported fine. Hmmmmm

[R Neil Haugen]

Are you applying the Lumetri in the sequence or in the Export dialog?

Are you queuing over to MediaEncoder, or exporting directly from PrPro?

Neil

[jucabTK421]

Lumetri was done in the sequence. (Heads up, I don't really use it so much, our previous editor liked them.)  As far as exporting, I used Media Encoder this time, but I will generally use it or export direct ffrom the NLE depending on the daily load and how many of what I have to get done.

[R Neil Haugen]

MediaEncoder can be ... odd ... at times, in the way it handles Lumetri on export. I've learned for most purposes to go into the ME Preferences and un-check "import sequences natively". It tends to handle Lumetri effects better.

Once you understand how Lumetri works, and if you've got a surface like the Tangent Elements/Ripple or the Palette controls, you can work a ton faster, more intuitively, and get better results. The new comparison view and shot-matching features have been a wonderful addition for my workflow.

Neil