Errors with R3D files in M1 MacBook Pro

[nicktheclark]

Hi,

I edited the trailer for a documentary project on my old Intel iMac on Mojave this past August with no issue. The majority of the footage in the project is R3D files. I recently started editing the full-length film (same footage) with a new MacBook Pro with M1 Max, Mac OS 12.2, and Premiere 22.1.2, and I'm now getting a number of issues.

-Most importantly, I'm getting corrupted frames (see below) on export, and sometimes when just opening a sequence or pausing in the timeline.

-When loading Multicam clips in the source monitor, I see the two correct camera angles displayed while paused, but as soon as I hit play, it displays the B Cam (second video track) twice.

This is of course really troubling as I start a long-form edit, and hoping there's a fix on the way asap. A couple of notes/attempts I've made to fix it:

-This so far is only affecting the R3D files in the project, all archive plays/exports normally.

-I edited another project on this same setup that was shot on Blackmagic cameras (.braw files) without issue.

-I've created ProRes proxies of all R3D files, and I'm now using those for playback and during export (unfortunately). This seems to have improved, but not entirely solved, the issue.

-I had some success rendering using Software Only, though once had to create a new sequence, copy/paste from the original, THEN export using Software Only to fix it.

This is being edited in a large Premiere Production, and I'm dreading the prospect of having to dust off my 2015 iMac and XML all of my sequences back into an old version of Premiere to finish this project. Any help greatly appreciated!

[R Neil Haugen]

Ouch! That's ... painful.

Maybe @mattchristensen  might be able to pop in and advise?

Neil

[nicktheclark]

Yeah, not a fun one. Thanks for the bump, Neil!

[R Neil Haugen]

Hey, I don't do much red, but do from time to time. Normally it goes fine, sometimes I get a puzzler. But nothing like this ... so yea, hoping Matt or someone will pop in. Maybe @Warren Heaton too ...

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

@nicktheclark @R Neil Haugen 

It's been a good five years since I've worked with Red native and even then, I always transcode to ProRes.  (Camera originals transcode to ProRes Source, edit ProRes Sequence, export ProRes edited master... 100% of the time minimizes 98% of your problems, Mac or Windows.)  I might still have some Red footage from a client's music video around here somewhere.  If I can find it, I can try to duplicate the issues with mulitcam source and corruption in exported frame this weekend on my M1 Mac mini.

To troubleshoot this, I'd try the following:

• Open Premiere Pro using Rosetta on the M1 Max and check the for the issues.
• Transcode and replace everything used in one of the mulitcam Sequence source and update the Sequence Video Previews to the corresponding version of ProRes used and check for the issue.  This should be easy enough, but take some time, by using Project Manager (File > Project Manger...) for a Sequence.
• Recreate a small segment in the prior version of Premiere Pro on the M1 Max  and check for the issues.
• Open the project in the up-to-date Beta without saving over the current 2022.1.2 project and check for the issues.
• Quick test import, edit, export in another NLE (Final Cut Pro, Resolve) to isolate if it's footage/storage media related or application / hardware related.

The 2015 iMacs supports macOS 12.2 Monterey.  As such, the current Premiere Pro 22.1.2 project file could be opened up on either a MacBook Pro M1 Max or a 2015 iMac if the iMac is updated.  If there's a reason that the iMac needs to remain on macOS 10.14 Mojave, macOS 12.2 Monterey and Premiere Pro 22.1.2 can be installed on an external boot drive.  It may even be helpful to preserve the older versions that're known to work well and also have the up-to-date versions on the iMac.

Sorry that I cannot chime in with "This is known issue.  Just do ______ and it's resolved."

[nicktheclark]

Hey Warren! 

Thanks for this detailed reply, all very helpful.

Based on your recs, I have: 

• Tried opening Premiere in Rosetta (fixed issues during playback, but still had a bad export)
• Transcoded all R3D footage to ProRes, changed sequence presets accordingly (no corrupted frames during playback or export, still improper angles in Multicam playback)
• Opened the most problematic clip in Resolve, played it back, added some nodes, exported (worked!)

I haven't yet tried to open the project in an older version (or the latest Beta) of Premiere. But, based on all of this head-banging-against-the-wall I've done, it seems to me to be a unique bug with Premiere+M1+R3D. 

Maybe I'll file a bug report, but in the meantime will just work with ProRes...and also update my old iMac just in case.

[Tim Sekiguchi]

I'm having similar problems with R3D files recorded on the V-Raptor. I'm also using the latest M1 Max with latest version of premiere. I edit with proxies and my exports turn out fine, but when I go to online everything and export, there are consistently glitches.

The only solution to this so far as been to export using software encoding, which takes a little longer but ultimately gives you the clean finished product.

Also, on another note, when I've previously exported on older computers, the estimated file size was usually very accurate... when using Hardware Encoding, the file sizes come out to be 10 - 20% smaller than the estimated size... however, when using Software Encoding, the estimated file size and actual file size are the same. In other words, using software encoding is actually giving me LARGER files - I wouldn't have thought the encoder would have made that big of a difference.

Also, hi @mattchristensen !

[Warren Heaton]

@Tim Sekiguchi 

Is your workflow to import R3D, edit R3D, and then export to H264?  If so, is the Edit Mode for your Sequence set to Custom, Red Cinema, or something else?

[nicktheclark]

@Tim Sekiguchi Sorry to hear you're having similar issues, but it sure does feel good to not be alone, haha.

Editing with proxies and rendering out using software only has helped me solve this about 75% of the time, but I still get the glitchy frames on export sometimes - even when forcing proxy export WITH software only!

@Warren Heaton , based on your earlier suggestion, I changed all of my sequences from RED cinema to Custom w/ ProRes Proxy to match my proxy files. Similar to the above, has helped but not solved the issue.

My DP has the same workstation and recently did a clean OS/Adobe CC install on his MBP, which also seemed to help. That may be my next step, but I'm dreading it.

[Warren Heaton]

@nicktheclark @Tim Sekiguchi 

I tried to reproduce this using sample R3D files from Red's website (https://www.red.com/sample-r3d-files) using Premiere Pro version 22.2.0 (Build 128) on an M1 Mac mini running macOS 11.6.2.

There's a HELIUM 8K S35 clip, V-RAPTOR 8K VV clip, DRAGON 6K S35 clip, and V-RAPTOR 8K VV clip.  Each is imported via the Media Browser with a Sequence created from the HELIUM 8K S35 clip (Editing Mode set to Custom with Video Preview Format set to I-Frame Only MPEG).  Lumetri Color is applied to each clip and the non-8K clips are set to frame size.

Exporting with Adobe Media Encoder version 22.2 (Build 64) using H264 Match Source - High Bit Rate and H264 Vimeo 480p SD Wide works as expected.

If anyone would like to download the project to test on their M1 MacBook Pro for troubleshooting purposes, I’m happy to provide a download link.  It’s about 7.5 GB.  If the problem can be reproduced with files that are easier to move around, we can get it to the Premiere Pro Engineers.

[nicktheclark]

Hey Warren,

Thanks so much for following up and testing this out. Our systems are close. I'm on Premiere/AME 22.2 (Build 128) and MacOS 12.2.1. Would be wild if it was an Easter Egg in Monterey!

I'd be happy to check out your project if you want to send a link. Would be great to get it to Adobe engineers.

Thanks!

[davef43726944]

Link me please. R3d files are unusable for me without transcoding.

[Warren Heaton]

@nicktheclark and @davef43726944 

Hi Nick and Dave:

Here's the link to the test project where I used sample footage from Red's website:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FVCa-8Bxwj_FssjA0K8A8OwPApIxvnjx/view?usp=sharing

It's Premiere Pro 22.2.0 (built 128) running on macOS 11.6.2 on an Apple M1 Mac mini.  It's just some light Lumetri Color adjustments on four Red sample clips with the Pipeline set to "Legacy" and no LUT applied.  On my end, the footage just looks gorgeous and exports as expected with both the Legacy Pipeline and the IPP2 Pipeline.  If you can reproduce your issues with this project, it may help to better isolate it being hardware or OS.

I haven't done enough Red-based projects to have a regular workflow.  My last one (behind the scenes for a feature film) was shot as ProRes in camera and the project that used Red footage before that (a fundraising promo for a documentary on Radio City Music Hall) I converted everything to ProRes using Apple Compressor.  If I was experiencing this issue, I think the first thing that I would do is download and install REDCINE-X PRO (https://www.red.com/download/redcine-x-pro-mac) and use that to convert my source footage to Apple ProRes 422 HQ - maybe not the entire current project, but at least enough clips to run some tests to see if that's a way to keep working by swapping out the Red camera originals with REDCINE-X PRO converted ProRes and updating Sequence settings to match.

I'd start support chats with Adobe, Apple, and Red - patiently - to get to level 2 support agents.  I'd also try to wrangle a software engineer from Adobe, one from Apple, and one from Red into the same in-person conversation at an event at NAB.  (Although, as far as I aware, Apple has not attended NAB in any easy-to-access capacity since the deprecation of QuickTime and Final Cut Pro classic.)

[nicktheclark]

Hey Warren,

Thanks again for all of your help and consistent followup. I've downloaded your project and media. Immediately when opening Media Encoder I got the attached, garbled screengrab. This did not appear in the first few test outputs I did, but the bug is still there.

I've tried downloading REDCINE-X PRO, but got error mesages when installing (though I gave it appropriate permissions via System Prefs). I also tried updating an old, Intel iMac to Monterrey and the system bricked itself during the OS reinstall, so that's another problem for another day.

For now, still working on the current M1 Max MBP system with the errors. I'm not at NAB this year, unfortunately, but you'd suggest starting chats w/ Adobe via the website? Thanks again!

[Warren Heaton]

Yikes!  Seeing that decompression failure gives me that unpleasant tingly feeling you get when someone runs their fingernails across a chalkboard.

It, of course, should look like this:

Sample Red footage in Export Settings dialog box of Adobe Media Encoder 22.3 build 64 under macOS 11.6.2 on an Apple M1 Mac mini

Remind me.  This is happening under Rosetta as well as Apple native, right?

If I was where you are right now (assuming you haven't done so already)...

I would try to get REDCINE-X PRO installed.  I had to read the instructions on Red's support page twice to get past how macOS will try to prevent the installation.  Although, I'm using Big Sur which may be a little different than Monterey.

Next... I'd try installing a clean version of macOS on an external drive (a fast USB3 thumb drive will do) and then just Creative Cloud Desktop, Premiere Pro, and Media Encoder - and nothing else.  There's a slim chance this is related to a software conflict.

Even though it's not officially supported for the M1 Max, I would try to install macOS Big Sur instead of Monterey.  There's a link on this Apple Support page that should cause "Install macOS Bug Sur" to appear in the App Store: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683  On this page, scroll down to "Use Safari to download macOS on your Mac" and then click "macOS Big Sur".  The link is meant for updating, but it would work for a clean install on a Mac that officially supports it (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211238) and might work on the newer Macs that are not supported.

If you happen to have not created an external boot drive, Other World Computing has this blog: https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/73499-create-external-bootable-startup-disk-m1-mac/

If rolling macOS back doesn't work (the installer will probably run but may stop on an unsupported hardware message), I'd go ahead and try a clean install of macOS Monterey with just Creative Cloud Desktop, Premiere Pro, and Media Encoder.  If that leads to the same decoding issue, I'd start a support call with AppleCare asking if there's a way to roll back macOS so that you can better troubleshoot this issue.

And yes, start a support chat with Adobe (you could even try this first).  Try to set aside a few hours for the call to Apple and the chat with Adobe.

Also, submit a bug report here: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro

And... whatever it is that you do to calm your soul during slightly insane and extended technical issues, double that up!

[Warren Heaton]

Oh... another thing... have you tried Davinci Resolve yet just to see if the issue presents itself there or not?

[georgeb26063905]

I'm getting the same issues. Komodo R3D footage. Imported as R3D, not proxied and then exporting as H.264 or ProRes. I get crazy glitches like the OP on specific clips in my sequences. Very frustrating, as same project works fine on an iMac Pro 2018.

[R Neil Haugen]

Both the LGG (LiftGammaGain) and BlackMagic forums have posts about the same things. And those are Resolve users, so it's clearly something about the M1s at this point in time.

Awesome numbers for M1s in ProRes, really bad issues with RED and some Sony & long-GOP formats.

Hopefully that will get sorted by Apple soon, but it seems to be across apps.

Neil

[nicktheclark]

Ah, that's interesting. 

I did some tests with my problem R3D footage in Resolve, and it didn't have the same issues in playback or export that I'm seeing in Premiere. Wasn't extensive, but at least initially was error-free.

I've now entirely erased and reinstalled MacOS on my system, disonnected R3D files from my Premiere project (so that it's ONLY referencing ProRes proxies), export using Software Only, and I still get these glitches left and right. Worst editing experience I've had in as long as I can remember. I do hope this gets run up the ladder at Apple/Adobe, and resolved asap.

[R Neil Haugen]

This kind of crud is really, really infuriating. And different M1 setups from what performace things people have shared around can have very different results. Just ... maddening for users.

Neil

[nicklauss47074881]

I am having the same issues! Very frsutrating and not much literature on the problem. This is the only post I could find on the matter... 

 

[marcw23771270]

Having the same issue on Macbook pro M1Max Monterrey Premiere 22.1.2.  The only fix that I've found outside of Software only render is to edit the project on my M1 and revert back to my imac pro for export and final render. We run on a shared server, so not much time lost there.   No issues at all on that machine.  The new processor is smoking when it comes to processing the R3D raw files and I haven't had to create proxies which is a huge time saver, but... This is a major issue.  So are you guys seeing this as an APPLE issue or Adobe?  Just curious where the fix is going to come from and when.

[R Neil Haugen]

Hey, that's frustrating. The performance between one new M1 and another within this app is mindboggling. Hoping they get this sorted out.

Neil

[nicktheclark]

Hi all,

Just wanting to follow up on my original post here (after a few more months of suffering these glitches). I've FINALLY come across what seems to be a solution for me on this particular project: I tried flattening all multiclips and un-nesting prior to export, and that has elimated these output errors.

SO, this seems to be some sort of deep corruption occuring when RED clips on M1 are nested in any way. Glad I can prevent the errors in this case, but still hoping it's not an ongoing issue, b/c completely flattening every sequence before export is obviously unsustainable. 

ALSO, I guess just so I don't get too comfortable, the flattened, otherwise glitch-free export I did, did have a few frames of corruption over a plaeholder graphic. Checked out the attached. That background image is not a green solid...

[R Neil Haugen]

Check out their Adobe Long-form and Episodic Best Practices Guide which is finally, a decent pro-level look at using PrPro. Including setup, potential gotchas from nested sequences and merged clips, and how to 'turn-over' to other apps.

Yea, there's a number of things that require flattening a sequence prior to export. Especially with AAF/XML/EDL workflows, but for other things too.

Neil