Export native RED files with NO conversion?

[Terry Kelley]

I'm cutting a show in native 4K RED, no proxies, no transcoded files, just right out of the camera.  I want to export my sequence in the exact same format.  We're going to color grade in SCRATCH and want to use the native camera files.  Every other NLE I've worked with allows you to export files without conversion.  There must be SOME way to do that in Premiere Pro?  So far I'm unable to find any answer to this question.

Terry Kelley, ACE

310-739-2067

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm puzzled by your comment. I'm used to the concept of exporting a flattened sequence as a "check" video along with an XML and box of drives as needed for the colorist to conform in whichever grading app they're using.

I've never heard of an app that could export say BM RAW files, Sony Log files, red files ...

Neil

[Terry Kelley]

You’ve never heard of an NLE which can output files in the same format as that with which you’re editing?

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm also a contributing author for a colorist's teaching subscription site. They work probably 75% with Resolve but also do some with Avid and others.

Conforming the XML and original media, checking all cuts, scaling, and time-ramps against the flattened file of the sequence is a constant part of the job ... it's how every job gets onto their machines.

In several years of working with them, attending NAB and going through hours of process presentations, I've never seen any demo of an app exporting a RAW file for grading. It's normally a re-connect process with original media.

Neil

[Qengineering]

I does seem strange to want to export a sequence, as a single file, in the original camera format.

As a colorist, the first thing I would have to do is find all the cut points and slice the sequence back in to individual clips (scene detection). There could be NO transitions except cuts. The resulting file would have no handles for later tweaking/revisions.

Using Project Manager to gather and consolidate only the RAW clips necessary (in their entirety) would seem to provide a lot more versatility.

Actually, re-reading the OP, maybe that is what he is asking (Project Manager)...

[Terry Kelley]

I've output full rez HDCAM, ProRes 422HQ and other formats by reels, and just include an EDL for colorist.  Wondered if that could work with Premiere Pro and RED files.

Not trying to promote SCRATCH, but we did a show on that in 2011 and it's real time hotshot.  But we output the sequence in Final Cut Pro 7 as RED.

[Terry Kelley]

I have an iMac I like to cut on, but it only has a 4-core processor. I have a Mac Pro that has a 12-core with 64GB of RAM and 8GB of VRAM.

I send my cuts to the director by way of Vimeo, and I downsize them radically. 4K RED files become H.264 size 1280X676. They take forever to transcode on the iMac but pretty quick on the Mac Pro.

Most NLEs can make an output in less than real time if you’re not doing any conversion. So I thought I’d make an output from the iMac to an external drive at full resolution, then plug it into the Mac Pro and convert to H.264.

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

[excited_Genie16B8]

You’ve never heard of an NLE which can output files in the same format as that with which you’re editing?

That depends on what you're editing.  For ProRes or DNx, sure.  For RED and other RAW formats, no.

[excited_Genie16B8]

I'm not aware of any editing software which can export camera-native RAW files.  The typical process is to export an XML or AAF for opening in other software.

[rodneyb56060189]

interesting problem...

In general, I think the above answers reflect the norm and the best (fastest) workflow. Do the edit, send to others ( color, sound, SFX, etc.)

There is one interesting thing I discovered on internet...and the quote below is a portion of what is in the article the link below points to.

===The only feature I’ve found in REDCINE-X Pro and not in Resolve is the ability to export trimmed R3D files (without any transcoding or processing of the images), which can be useful in some VFX workflows.===

https://blog.frame.io/2018/04/30/red-workflows/

So basically, you'd be doing simple simple edit (get rid of slates and tails after 'cut' ) probably without transitions etc...then sending to color guys, they do their thing so you're in the ballpark for working on better edit...and THEN export as per above suggestions as XML etc.  Kinda like working in a non-conventional way, but might work for you ??  After all, if you want to edit it's kinda nice to have at least a basic idea what's up with the color you are matching between shots etc. ????

[rodneyb56060189]

probably didn't make clear... color guys would have to send you BACK stuff so you can finish edit...then go the normal route after that.

[rodneyb56060189]

I'm wondering if this thread is some kind of joke. Googling Terry Kelly, ACE gives me a guy who is a very experienced pro editor, and I find it hard to believe he would ask this question.

What's up ?  If you ARE Terry Kelly, are you OK ?? I hope so.

[Terry Kelley]

I get my dailies with LUTs.

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

[Terry Kelley]

no way to export RED with LUTs?

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

[excited_Genie16B8]

Terry Kelley

no way to export RED with LUTs?

As RED files?  No.  You'd have to choose another format.

[shaunk83531422]

Terry, did you ever get any update on this? I am needing some vfx on some shots and having to send the sequence over to the vfx editor but I don't want him to not have the raw red files behind it, is there any fix other than sending the entire project over dropbox?

[rodneyb56060189]

Being a typical skeptical New Yorker, by birth, etc. I suspect the reason for this post was to promote ( get into the ether of internet land ) the program SCATCH, which is pretty impressive ( if you google it ). I doubt you'll hear much back from Terry on this thread.

[Terry Kelley]

Are New Yorkers typically cynical?

[rodneyb56060189]

I meant SCRATCH

[rodneyb56060189]

everyone here will be happy to see that the editor's union is promoting adobe. Here is a link to a program (tutorials) that may help you, Terry.  It is from the editors union site..

Editors Guild - IATSE Local 700 > Main Menu > Education > Online Training

Earlier I posted a link to an article that at one point recommends trying REDCINE X to export RED without conversion.  It's a free program, and you can no doubt put one 4k clip in it, cut it (trim) to some size that will allow you to edit it later on ( lots of spare room at head and tail )..export it. Look at it. Send it to someone to color. GET IT BACK. Finish your edit, and then export as per normal routes as explained earlier ( edl, xml, etc. ) ???  Lots of ways to do what you want, but exporting R3D from adobe and any other NLE is not happening, except REDCINE X, as far as I know.

Good luck !

[rodneyb56060189]

here's more info that you might find helpful, Terry.

http://docs.red.com.s3.amazonaws.com/955-0004_v42/REV-A/HTML/955-0004_V42%20Rev-A%20%20%20RED%20PS,%...

REDCINE-X PRO® is a free application from RED® that allows you to view R3D® files natively on your Mac® or Windows® system. REDCINE-X PRO is a professional-grade software application, designed specifically for transcoding and pre-editorial image manipulation of REDCODE® RAW R3D footage.
REDCINE-X PRO Overview – RED Digital Cinema
https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/articles/217961418-REDCINE-X-PRO-Overview

[Terry Kelley]

I don’t suppose you can export a RED file instead of an XML?

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

[Qengineering · Accepted solution]

Premiere Pro can not export a RED format file in any manner.

An XML from PrP would essentially contain EDL information only, no video data.

Most people would export the XML file (or Premiere project file) and then use Project Manager (within PrP) to gather and consolidate raw camera files (including RED format files) onto a new drive.

If your RED files have a LUT embedded, that LUT would stay with the RED file when being gathered and transferred to the drive.

[Terry Kelley]

thanks, that’s as clear an answer as anyone could ever want!

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

[rodneyb56060189]

Good luck, Terry.

bye