H.264 or H.265 for HEVC Videos from Mavic 3 classic and what are the best export settings 4k/full HD

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Dear forum members,

while I'm getting better in taking drone videos, my skills in Premiere pro are'nt that good at all. While I most of the time like what I see when exporting 4k and fHD videos,  I realize that the principles of what I'm doing are not sound. H.265 or H.264 - I tried both and did'nt see much of a difference when I exported to MP4 what I always do. A friend told me that he exports his drone videos to prores? Are there advantages for that way?
Can someone suggest a good reading that can help me to get more professional?
Thanks for your support

Regards
Franz

[R Neil Haugen]

It's all about the details!

What's the deliverables used for, on what types of screens?

Then you work backward from that. Workflows must always be planned from the specifics of the necessary final result ... so you know how to get where you need to get to, and can get there.

Let's start with that ... what do you need to have at the end? Framesize, framerate, and bitdepth and data rates?

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

You are absolutely right - it's the details.
I am working on a project to document a special region in Austria in outstanding mood, weather and perspectives. I want to show this documentation in a local mountain film festival, as far as I know they use 4k beamers. 
So far I have settled to take the videos in 5,1 k, 30fps and did'nt much care about bitdepth and bitrate (capturing in DLog 10 bit on my DJI Mavic 3 classic).
Thank you very much, Neil, for supporting me again!
Franz

[Ann Bens · Accepted solution]

You need to ask the people from the local festival for the required specs for the movie file.

[R Neil Haugen]

Ann is right, as always!

So now you have a specific 'market', you really need to know exactly is on their spec sheets. As those can vary widely from festival to festival. Once you have the specifics, then you can plan back.

And one very specific thing to know is framerates. And whether or not it's interlaced or progressive. If progressive, drop-frame or non-drop-frame if there's broadcast involved. As not all framerates are so easily 'melded' into others.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Thank you Ann and Neil, that is clear now for me, but because this is a long term project (about 2 years to work) parameters can change. But as I store original data, I think that I will be able to adapt to possible changes.
What I'm still puzzling: H.264 or H.265?  Could not find sound answers for that. ProRes is overkill for my project, I assume?
Franz

[R Neil Haugen]

You do want to have data levels kept throughout the process. Using ProRes 422 as your digital intermediate would assure that, and once you have the final project done, you can decide whether to archive or dump the DI media.

Many just dump it, as you can reacreate it from the original files at need. Unless you've done major work to the ProRes files, and if so, you can create H.265 high-bitrate files from the ProRes, then dump the ProRes. And probably do ok.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Thank you Neil, 
if I correctly unterstand you,  I should

-  use H.265 when I record videos with my drone

- export  from Premiere Pro to ProRes 422 as DI (what ProRes 422, LT, HQ would you suggest?)
Correct?

[R Neil Haugen]

I think the DJI's always use some long-GOP format, not sure exactly what. It allows for using a hardware chip to do high-speed compression to write vastly smaller files to disc with "low visual losses" ... so it's useful on that small drone.

However ... that format requires decompressing/decoding up to 60 frames or more just to give playback to the next frame of that media. Simple players can typically handle this, but an NLE, which is not just playing back the file, it's grabbing bits & pieces of files, trying to play them seamlessly as a single 'new' video, along with applying effects ... hey, it's a LOAD.

So a decent DI format/codec for the project, used either as a transcode to replace the media during the edit process, or as a proxy file for better playback, is a normal professional practice. Has been for years now.

I work for/with/teach pro colorists, mostly in Resolve, with massive hardware. They've got more in their calibration software and gear than you and I combined have in our computers and monitors. And they pretty much all hate long-GOP to grade, even on their machines with massive high-speed RAID, 256GB of RAM, high-end GPUs and all.

For most drone work, ProRes 422 is a good DI format, ProRes Lt or Proxy for proxy use.

Proxy work is easy ... select the clips, tell Premiere to create proxies, and you can then go forth & back between original clips and proxies for display/playback. The app will export from the original clips.

You can also export a ProRes 422 'master' of your project's final view, and use that to create the deliverable files in various formats.

Total DI work typically is using MediaEncoder to make DI files of the entire shoot, then importing and using those files for the editing process. If they're named the same as the original files, at time to archive, it's pretty simple to replace them with originals.

Simply select all the DI files in the bin in Premiere, right-click "offline". Then when Pr gives you the "we lost the file connection' dialog to search for them, select the folder on disc of original files, and the Premiere Project will now list all the original long-GOP clips as the project's image files.

Store the project like that. If you do need to come back to it, you could again either make proxies or create new DI files, and offline the originals to the DI files.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Thank you very much, Neil,
that is great advice. Advice for problems I had'nt even articulated. But you nailed more than one of my problems, wow: 

"long-GOP format- ...hey, it's a LOAD.

So a decent DI format/codec for the project, used either as a transcode to replace the media during the edit process, or as a proxy file for better playback, is a normal professional practice. Has been for years now."
I really have to do that: Proxy or DI as you suggested!
Will certainly give this advice a try: 
"Total DI work typically is using MediaEncoder to make DI files of the entire shoot, then importing and using those files for the editing process. If they're named the same as the original files, at time to archive, it's pretty simple to replace them with originals."
And the advice to store projects is also very helpful!
I think, with this help I've got from you, I'll be able to make some important progress.
Thanks a lot and all the best!
Franz

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

One more question, if you allow!
I could make a good bargain with the Mavic 3 pro Cine, which can record ProRes on an internald SSD up to ProRes 422 HQ.
What do you think:
- Would I only be overwhelmed with data or is there an advantage to use the ProRes Version with the least data rate compared to the DI workflow from H.265 suggested by Neil?
Franz

[R Neil Haugen]

It's always a process. And it always is changing, though the process to get "there" is always pretty much the same. Figuring out the process needed for this job at this time is always a necessary task.

And one so many of us ... myself included ... would prefer to skip. Sometimes it works OK not to spend the time to rethink your process. But other times, it bites you horribly.  And yea, I have plenty of personal experience at the later, you'd think I'd always do things Righteously ... sigh.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

I've started to follow your advice and try to evaluate the pros and cons.
The cons: a lot of data and time to produce the DI
The pros: honestly I'm not sure. When I produce a 4 k mp4 file from the DI, this files datarate is about 4000 kbit/sec higher as if I produce a 4k file from the original file. On my monitor, a Eizo 1920x1200, I can't see a difference, what one can expect.
Can someone give me a hint, what difference this datarate difference makes on a really big screen?

[R Neil Haugen]

If your data rate is high enough, you might be able go a generation or two in H.264/5 without noticeable visual data loss ... in some scene types. What's notable for each project/user will vary, of course.

You should be able to go several generations of ProRes 422 or better without any visual loss.

For many non-professional users, ProRes Lt will look as good for two/three generations as H.264/5.

Yes, the drive space requirements for intraframe media is higher, often much higher, than for intraframe media. However, you can create interframe (ProRes, DNx ) for processing a project, then delete the files when the project is done. As you can always recreate DI from the original files.

Playback within an NLE, with ProRes and DNx is typically better than H.264/5, especially on machines without good internal long-GOP hardware, such as the Intel QuickSync bits.

Time to create should not be an issue. You can setup "watch folders" in MediaEncoder, with instructions to create X type media, put in Y folders.

Then you simply drag the H.264 to those folders and it goes at creating the DI clips while you go have lunch or sleep or whatever.

But all of theses choices will be different for every user. Test, and see what you are comfortable with.