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H264 color fade on media export?

Participant ,
Feb 02, 2017 Feb 02, 2017

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when I export to h264 (mp4) my clip is washed out when playing back in VLC and Quicktime.

When I import that same clip back into premiere, it looks fine.

Can someone explain?

Thanks so much.

(PC windows 7, Nvidia graphics card, CC2015)

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , Feb 02, 2017 Feb 02, 2017

There are a number of quite lengthy threads on this subject.

Build your projects on a fully calibrated system, with a high-quality monitor (broadcast quality, if possible ... a couple grand or so). And by calibrated I mean with at least a puck & software.

Test your exports on fully calibrated pro playback equipment. Make sure that what you produce is within color & gamut specs for the format you deliver into.

And kiss it good-bye.

Once it leaves your system, you have no freakin' control whatever on

...

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LEGEND ,
Feb 02, 2017 Feb 02, 2017

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QuickTime most often applies it's own idea of gamma & dynamic range ... assuming that PrPro produced H.264 media is 16-235. It's just plain problematic to use for any significant looking at media.

If VLC is a problem, I'm suspecting that given that you're running an Nvidia card, you need to go into the Nvidia control panel and in the bottom section on setting video color, set the "Use video player or video card settings" to "use video card settings". Then in the Advanced tab, change the Dynamic Range from 16-235 to "Full range 0-255".

Neil

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LEGEND ,
Feb 02, 2017 Feb 02, 2017

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Here's a screen grab to illustrate my last post.

Nvidia Video Settings.PNG

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Participant ,
Feb 02, 2017 Feb 02, 2017

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thanks very much Neil

While I would love to see things the same across players, apps, web, etc, my biggest concern is how things will look once uploaded to youtube and vimeo. Does the nvidia setting have anything to do with this? or is this only going to change what I see on my own machine?

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LEGEND ,
Feb 02, 2017 Feb 02, 2017

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There are a number of quite lengthy threads on this subject.

Build your projects on a fully calibrated system, with a high-quality monitor (broadcast quality, if possible ... a couple grand or so). And by calibrated I mean with at least a puck & software.

Test your exports on fully calibrated pro playback equipment. Make sure that what you produce is within color & gamut specs for the format you deliver into.

And kiss it good-bye.

Once it leaves your system, you have no freakin' control whatever on how it looks. Period, and there is no way around this!

Very few computers have a decently setup monitor to begin with. Are you really aware of how badly setup for color, tone, white/black points, all that sort of thing ... that the vast majority of computers are as a video display?

And past that, people see it through a browser. With all the junk that browsers do to "enhance the viewer's experience". Juice it around, that is.

PrPro is built to deliver professional standards in Rec709 ... period. That's what it does. But you can only tell what your output really is if you've got the system to show pro work properly calibrated. Or take it on a flash drive to someplace that can show it like that. Once you know what you can make, and can control your own output, then ... do your work.

YouTube & Vimeo have clearly varying internal practices depending on where you upload from. Some people here have terrible trouble uploading and getting something very different than what they expected. Some of us get very much what we expect, especially being as we know that it's just YouTube.

Neither YouTube nor Vimeo apply normal professional standards to their modifications to every media they handle.

I've had decent results from my work ... I know seen through a browser it will not look precisely like the beautifully graded piece I created. (And I'm a darn picky sot when it comes to grading my work.)

Broadcast pros have this issue also. I've some friends who are major pro colorists. They have to deliver shows that are dead-on within very tight specs for color gamut, black/white points, and saturation, completely besides the taste and choices of those paying quite nicely for their work. Any submission to a full broadcast system goes through a quality check, and if one bitty pixel is out of line someplace, the whole thing is rejected and sent back until it passes QC.

Believe me, they've got better color-calibration setup than probably anything you've got ... sure past mine!

But as soon as that show goes out over the cable or airwaves, granny with her tv all light and green will see that show ... light and green. Just like every other show she sees. And because it looks just like every other show on her light & green tv, it will look "good" to her. It's what she's used to.

And there ain't squat you can do about that.

So make your own end ship-shape. Test upgrades to Vimeo & YouTube, see what settings seem to work best. Forget "Max Render Quality" and "Maximum depth" because in an 8-bit output, they will only add time, and may even screw up some of your pixels. Forget about 2-pass encoding, as these days that's just going to get you a long lunch break.

There's a user here ... chris & a bunch of numbers for a moniker. He's got a few tips & tricks some have used to they feel, their benefit, and he may chime in here. You may find a couple of his things useful.

But no matter what you do, once it's uploaded to such as Vim & YuT, well ... it's in the Wild now. As long as it looks similar to other professionally produced pieces, you're gold. Don't expect every subtle tone and shading to reproduce through their upload and then download/playback on a browser to look like it did all shiny new in PrPro. If you can get it close, you done good.

Neil

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Participant ,
Feb 03, 2017 Feb 03, 2017

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wow Neil, thanks for that very thorough reply! I am far from a color/codec/premiere expert, so that's very helpful

M

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LEGEND ,
Feb 03, 2017 Feb 03, 2017

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LATEST

As I said, we've had some LONG threads on here about this, with people insisting there must be a way to control what people see on their systems. And expecting fairly tight control too.

There's a quote from Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings series, about ... "That way lies madness!" that so applies to that ... quest.

If that can't be controlled by television broadcasters, what the heck makes it seem like it could be controlled over the 'net to so many odd & varied computers, screen-types, video sub-systems, and browsers?

I suppose I should engage in Full Disclosure  ... um ... when I started a few years back ... I was one of the ones asking about this ... just fyi ... sigh.

Do the best to control the situation you work in, so you know your material is sound. Test a few short exports, and watch on several different systems to see if there is a "standard" variance, perhaps correct that direction if there is.

It's not only the best thing you can do, it's the only thing you can do.

Neil

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