How to create HDR videos in Premiere?

[LuneTech]

Hi everyone. I want to know how do I make/export a video with the HDR "standard"? I'm getting a sony a6500 which can shoot in SLog which I heard is necessary for HDR video. However, I've also read about needing 10 bit and ProRes. Do I need those 2 features in my camera to be able to shoot in HDR, or is shooting in SLog enough (because in that case I would need to buy an Atomos recorder)? Sorry but I'm not an expert in video editing, but I do want to start making videos in HDR from now on since HDR TVs are becoming popular and even youtube supports HDR videos. Basically, I just want to know how to turn my camera's slog video into HDR compatible in premiere.

Thanks in advance

[Jim_Simon]

Unless you're shooting RAW from a RED or Alexa, this might not be worth worrying about.

[LuneTech]

The Panasonic GH5 can record 4k HDR video and it's not a crazy expensive camera like the RED cameras.

[R Neil Haugen]

The fun thing about HDR yet is ... there isn't a lot of places using it. That will change over time.

Also ... not that high a percentage of the users working it, so not so many posting help with it yet. I pay attention to articles in the web, and presentations at Adobe MAX and NAB. But I can't shoot it myself.

Neil

[Jim_Simon]

The Panasonic GH5 can record 4k HDR video

I'm skeptical of that claim.  I've see NO mention of HDR with the GH5 in all the literature and review videos.

Keep in mind that 10 bit and HDR are NOT the same thing.

[LuneTech]

Check this out: Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos - YouTube Help

[Jim_Simon]

Maybe I missed it, but...I didn't see anything in that link about the GH5.

[LuneTech]

That link wasn't about the GH5, it was just to see if you could explain more about that for me because I'm still not exactly sure how I would go about making a video comply with the HDR specification and uploading it to YouTube. But just go on Google and type in Panasonic GH5 4K HDR video and a lot of links will pop up saying that it can record HDR video.

[Stan Jones]

On the Panasonic page, I see only this:

Hybrid Log Gamma* for 4K HDR Video

For greater human perception of luminance & High Dynamic Range.
TBD. Firmware update in Summer 2017.

[Jim_Simon]

This surprises me.  I've heard no one talking about this.  Seems like it would be a bigger deal.

[chrisw44157881]

premiere's doesn't support hdr youtube yet, gotta use ffmpeg to encode youtube hdr tags. the gh5 will soon support the EOTF luma transfer function. that doesn't mean you're gonna see 16.7 f-stop of dynamic range in there. it's similar to slog3, stealing bits from the blacks for brights, which I don't think will work so well because m43 isn't so hot when it comes to blacks in the first place. just another gimmick to confuse consumers, and/or blind them with 2,000 cdm ^2  candle power.

[estarkey]

Ok, regardless of the GH5, how do i grade and encode an HDR video in Premiere Pro? Let's say I have a (insert your most favorite full frame camera here), how do I take the Log footage and create an HDR deliverable?

HDR televisions have been available for around 2 years, and I've had one almost 2 years. DaVinci can do it Final Cut can do it. How do you do it in Premiere? Is it even possible to do in Premiere, or are those HDR and BT-2020 checkboxes simply for decoration?

[R Neil Haugen]

Just because a camera is "full frame" doesn't have anything to do with video quality for high dynamic range files. It just means it is a still camera primarily that has a sensor roughly the size and shape of a 35m film camera.

Quite often, cameras designed as still rigs with video capabilities are not the equivalent of a camera designed primarily as a video camera.

Some do pretty well. Most ... are compromises.

Neither does an ability to shoot in some log format imply any actual HDR capabilities  ... just that a camera may not lose as much highlight detail as it otherwise would. With quite a few cameras their log settings only get them almost up to a 10-stop range one had with b/w film. Hardly HDR.

Most "prosumer" cams with "log" don't produce particularly good log media.

To really be worthy of good HDR as far as I've seen, takes a camera that can record in at least 13 full stops of dynamic range and record that to card ... in at least 10-bit if not 12. It doesn't require log at all.

That media can be worth working, and produce amazing imagery on the few systems that can as of now distribute it.

The cameras making that media tend to cost a bit yet.

I'm looking forward to having that tech come down more for general use.

Neil

[estarkey]

Ok, let me try this. How to edit, grade an export HDR footage in Premiere Pro with (insert your favorite RED, Arri, Black Magic, Varicam, Sony FS7 variant).

Let's completely disconnect the camera the produces the footage or how good you think it's going to look. Can this be done in Premiere Pro CC 2018 or not. If the answer is no, fine. I'll move over to Davinci Resolve.

[richardc42493459]

Unfortunately Davinci Resolve won't create HDR deliverables. For that, it seems like your only option at the moment is FFMPEG.

Are you targeting HEVC Main10 (HDR10) or VP8 HLG?

[R Neil Haugen]

PrPro has some ... abilities ... but I've not done any HDR work so I can't attest to what they actually do. Resolve also seems to be limited there ... it's a very new field, and most apps are still struggling to catch up really. I expect all this to change as the year goes along. First, many apps announce new features at NAB in Vegas next month, and well ... time is moving forward fast on this.

But I just totally guessing here, as no one's yet announced plans to dump a release with major HDR features all piped, plumbed, and flowing data.

Neil

[charleshull]

FCPX has a very good HDR workflow.  I started with that since I shoot ProRes Raw, and only FCPX supports that format at this time.  But actually you can produce good HDR from any camera that has a LOG or HLG output, and I do this routinely anymore.

That said, I'm looking forward to doing this with Premiere Pro.  If PP has an equivalent workflow I haven't been able to figure it out.  By comparison both FCPX and DaVinci Resolve are well documented.

[LuneTech]

After looking at my original question, I think I should've explained it a bit better. I was basically asking how can I make it so that I can export a video in premiere pro that will make our HDR TVs show the "HDR" tag on the too right of the display (in the case of LG OLED TVs) and goes into its bright HDR mode. If you watch an HDR video on YouTube (The HDR Channel is probably the most popular channel for HDR videos), you will see your TV go into HDR mode and same if you play an HDR blu-ray movie or even an HDR video from an external hard drive that you hook up to your TV. So literally I just wanted to know how to export a video in Premiere to make your TV go into HDR mode when it detects that video. It's been 2 years from today that I posted the original question and I don't do much video work anymore, but I'm still curious about this topic because I haven't gotten an answer or figured it out yet.

[R Neil Haugen]

I'll have a better answer by sometime Monday.

Neil

[charleshull]

LuneTech, yes, when I say FCPX has a good HDR workflow this is what I mean.  When you play the videos the 'HDR' tag will pop up on a HDR TV.  And with any luck these videos will look as good as the HDR demos you see at TV stores.  8 bit SLog from a Sony a6500 is fine.

I'm a traditional Premiere Pro editor and want all this to work in PP, and I'm sure it will soon, but if you are anxious to get going with HDR FCPX could be a path.  Anyone I know who has posted bona fide HDR to the YouTube channel has used this.

[R Neil Haugen]

Pr has the capability to add the HDR tag, but it's not intuitive. And you gave to export very specifically also. I was talking with an engineer last night, but don't trust memory to be exact.

He's going to write me a bit about it and I'll post that as soon as I get it.

And he says they're very aware that more HDR capabilities need adding. I still think everyone going to the bug/features UserVoice system and voting up HDR tools would be useful to help bump importance of the issue.

Neil

[estarkey]

I use these settings:

Export in HEVC, select Render at Maximum Depth, then in encoding settings select the Main 10 profile. Then check REC-2020 and High Dynamic Range.

[charleshull]

estarkey, yes this works, I use those settings quite a bit with Media Encoder.  Even though I edit HDR with FCPX, Media Encoder is faster encoding 10 bit HEVC than Compressor.   I typically encode a ProRes file with Compressor (which is fast) and then encode this file with HEVC in Media Encoder.  For small edits it isn't worth it, but for large edits it saves quite a bit of time.

[R Neil Haugen]

Spent some time with an engineer at a NAB event tonight.

Yea, Max Bit Depth is utterly useless if you have a functioning discrete GPU, as it's already doing that. So don't worry about that setting if you're running some form of Mercury Acceleration in the Project settings.

Max Render Quality is all and only about scaling, especially if there are diagonal lines. So if export is to the same frame size, does nothing.

There are three ways to get PQ and one way to get HLG exports out. I'll postxa chart with those tomorrow.

And yes, they know this needs major work.

Neil

[Jim_Simon]

Max Bit Depth is utterly useless if you have a functioning discrete GPU, as it's already doing that.

Thanks for the official confirmation.