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How to remove tracks separator (audio/video)

Community Beginner ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

im working with several tracks in a sequense (6 video tracks and 6 audio tracks. It will be easier for me to have each audio track under its correspondent video track but there is a separatos that avoids mixing the order of the tracks. How can i remove this separator?

Thank you

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Community Expert ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

You cannot. It is by design. Dont think this will ever change (hope not!!)

If you want audio under video you might want to consider Premiere ELEMENTS.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

Are you sure theres no Options to remove it temporally? I dont think a professional program like Premiere works just in one way. And i cant use PrElements bcz it's all chroma key videos with actors and i have to edit like they are togheter in the scene. its so hard for me to sync the audio bcz as the audio is separated i have to mute one by one to figure out which video the audio belongs to. some might say i could label them but its more complicated than this... ive tryed filmora but it has the same separator line (at least in the trial version). If anyone knows a way to get rid of this separator or another way for me to do it easier im all ears

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Community Expert ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

I agree that it can't be done.

I think "pancake" editing will use up too much space for other reasons, but here is one thread describing the concept. It does part of what you are describing, but in multiple sequences.

Re: Having more than one sequence appear when editing?

Another discussing shortcuts/workflow.

Moving clips between sequences in the timeline instead of copying?

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

I never understood the concept of sequences... I always just criated a project and did all the job in one single sequence but I will try to do this. Thank you for your time and links! I hope it works for what i need.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

Infortunatelly pancake editing dont allow the several chromakey clips to be displayed properly in the video. the masking doesnt work... Its better i concentrate my time to finished the job instead of trying to walk-around this limitation. If anyone knows another way or professional program that allow me mixing ther order of audio and video tracks, please help.

Thank you all!

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Community Expert ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

this limitation

Its not a limitation its is the way its designed.

Most professional NLE work like this.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

Yes, my dear. It is a limitation as far as i am "limited" ... It could have a simple option to lock/unlock the separator. It could work fine for you and many people but doesnt work for me infortunatelly =(

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Community Expert ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

Do you know of a NLE that has that ability to reset the timeline?

Maybe switch to FCPx or Vegas.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

what is NLE? acronims in english are hard for me cause english isnt my first language

i dont have mac to use final cut. I`ve tried vegas pro... it does have the function i want but its chromakeyer is crap! I need to mask 6 tracks of video with chromakey but the result in vegas is very, very cheep...

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Community Expert ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

brunommmatos  wrote

what is NLE? acronims in english are hard for me cause english isnt my first language

Non-linear Editor.

NLE

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Mentor ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

take a deep breath. relax a moment. think about the real problem and the possible outcomes.

a) you are in over your head and can't do the editing.

b) you are learning how to deal with the material and problems you've encountered, so next time you know how to deal with it without some deadline you can't meet.

What's the worst that can happen ? You don't do it. You fail at doing it. So what ? It's not the end of the world.

You learn from it and move on.

So, take it easy and don't panic, and learn and make notes about solutions you've already come up with. On paper.

It's stupid for me to think that I can teach you how to make movies or edit from a forum because there are 6 year programs in universities that struggle to teach people the same stuff … at great cost to the student.  These are called "film schools" in general.

Just do the best you can and don't panic.  My personal opinion is that you should just be honest with whoever gave you this stuff ( as you stated you have a deadline you want to meet ) and see if you can work with them to give you more time to finish it.

After that it's a matter of sorting out what you have for source material.  If you have sound files that are totally unrelated to video clips ( in terms of timecode or slates or any kind of sync indicator... then you have to try and do it by watching some 'action' and painstakingly MOVING the sound to match the action.  Once you have that done for all the clips that are screwed up by being given to you haphazardly ( by idiots ) you LINK the video clip to the sound and SAVE IT ( maybe as a subclip or whatever ).  You have to spend the time and effort to get your resources straightened out despite the junk you GOT ( no jammed timecode, no slates, no in-camera sound embedded).

Just take a breath and deal with it as best you can.   Obviously you CARE about the work and what you do, so you can trust yourself that you will continue to invest yourself the same way with everything you do.

I hope this pep talk has been helpful, and please continue to believe in yourself and what you can accomplish.

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Mentor ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

In my imagination, when you say, " sound is overlapping" … I think the following...

link a clip that has actor 1 yappin that is in sync with sound clip and save it even if the 'sound clip' is longer than the video clip. ( cause you got crap to begin with it's a mess ).

Then you want to make a cut to actor 2 who starts moving his mouth ( sound has to be in sync ).  If the first clip has sound from actor 2 as well ( off screen ) you can just insert the cut to actor 2 video only, and leave sound running.. start doing J and L cuts.

Nobody can tell you what to do without seeing and hearing what you got to work with.

good luck

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Mentor ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

here's a sample ..

it's not about changing the UI to make things work.. it's about organizing and the actual " task " of editing with what you go to work with.

I'll put up a link... at end of post..

birds, motor boat, more birds, bar / restaurant all wild track ( stock sounds .. nothing used from camera or source materials ).

Basically the sound from camera was junk.

Next: person talking into camera lens... he is STILL TALKING while cut to jet airplane happens and jet noise fades in... ( happens to be wrong jet noise but I was in hurry doing this for you ).

It's a matter of putting puzzle pieces together to tell a story ( edit ) … and use everything you can. You'll do a great job !

good going

SOUND SYNC FOR POSTER on Vimeo

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

Thank you very much for your time you dedicate to help me. I really apreciate that. I need to do a great job and deliver it in time bcz thats my first oportunity in that company (i think thats why they gave me this terrible job).

I know its hard to help in the dark and the work im doing here is very hard to explain but Imagine that the caracters see versions of themself, with different mood and personalities. They apears as little versions over objects so i have:

track 1: the mask for glow effect on the little versions (video blend)

track 2: the good one little version MEDIUM SHOT (chroma key)

track 3: the bad one little version MEDIUM SHOT (chroma key)

track 4: the fool/funny one little version MEDIUM SHOT (chroma key)

track 5: the the background for MEDIUM SHOT

track 6: the mask for glow effect on the little versions in CLOSE UP (video blend)

track 7: the good one little version CLOSE UP (chroma key)

track 8: the bad one little version CLOSE UP (chroma key)

track 9: the fool/funny one little version CLOSE UP  (chroma key)

track 10: the the background for CLOSE UP

track 11: the big one version CLOSE UP (the real caracter) well syched

track 12: the big one version MEDIUM SHOT (the real caracter) well syched

track 13: the big one version LONG SHOT (the real caracter) well syched

audio track 1 = main audio track to place the correct audio

audio track 2 = audio track to place the necessery overlaped audio (when one caracter interupt the other)

audio track 3 = sound effect

audio track 4 = music (EMPTY YET)

audio track 5 = video track 2

audio track 6 = video  track 3

audio track 7 = video track 4

audio track 8 = video track 7

audio track 9 = video track 8

audio track 10 = video track 9

audio track 11 = video track 11

audio track 12 = video track 12

audio track 13 = video track 13

**i have 2 diferent angles of the 3 clips NOT SHOOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY**

So i have 6 chroma key clipes per scene that has nothing to do with nothing (theres nothing for caracters to cling to the chronology of the previous shoot... the lead/cue is given by the director)

As the audio was recorded with terrible condictions on chromakey clips (there is a very strong noise) so they will "voice" these scenes in studio after i finish.

Imagine that every cut i do, i have to rearrange all the chroma clips active and find in that mess the correspondent audio, cut and place in  the main audio track to clean what is not necessary and avoid to huge noise of 6 noisy tracks together. Im getting crazy with this!!

But rodney, you are a dear!! Thankyou very much!

I'm really thankful to everyone that tried help some how! I really apreciate that ❤️

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Mentor ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

WOW !

That's like amazing ! 

I won't waste your time trying to ask you stuff like, is it picture in picture ( PIP) type stuff within the main well sync'd versions and so on, but in general I think I would have tried to sorta whittle it down by doing it is sequences first...

===========

track 1: the mask for glow effect on the little versions (video blend)

track 2: the good one little version MEDIUM SHOT (chroma key)

track 3: the bad one little version MEDIUM SHOT (chroma key)

track 4: the fool/funny one little version MEDIUM SHOT (chroma key)

track 5: the the background for MEDIUM SHOT

============

sequence named for example, " MEDIUM LITTLE VERSION"...

track 1 = good medium

track 2 = bad medium

track 3 = fool medium

track 4 = glow effect

track 5 = background for key

I don't use PPro much at all now, so you have to move stuff around as needed to do your key for background and glow effect

The audio tracks would be the noisy stuff on audio levels equal to the video... E.G. if video 1 = good medium then audio 1 would be good medium.

When done I would export each one (good, bad, fool ) instead of nesting. Just export to some really good uncompressed lossless format matching your dimensions and specs (resolution, fps, etc.). Those would maybe be much larger files than your original source ( if your source is pro res or DNxHD or CinemaDNG, etc. ). Maybe something like apple animation ??  Who knows. Someone else might have better idea ( nesting ? )

Anyway, now you have 3 video tracks for MEDIUM little version and 3 audio tracks. You've eliminated 2 ( background and glow).

Do same (another sequence)  for other group ( CLOSE UP little version).

Now you've eliminated 2 more video tracks.  That's 4 total you got rid of.

don't forget you can add video and audio 'before or after' selected tracks, so you can bump stuff around to add stuff ( sound effect, music, etc. ) as you move toward final rough cut ...

So now you have 3 well sync'd video sources left … and that's another sequence ….there may be some cutting you do with those before you have to get into inserting your little versions ???  When you're ready bring in the little versions as needed.... ???

That's one heck of a project you have and if you've not gone crazy already I'm sure it will work out really well !  Good luck !

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Mentor ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019
LATEST

This is probably an interesting problem to compare layers vs. node based editing programs.. like, I might be able to use the same node for 'background' on all 3 versions of MEDIUM SHOT LITTLE ..( good, bad, fool ). and not have to deal with putting the stupid background under each one of those tracks, which would save a lot of scrolling and monitor real estate ??

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Community Expert ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

Hi,

Sorry, it can't be done afaik.

After Effects works on a layers principle where the audio is embedded. But not an ideal solution for editing of course.

You may want to look at Rush. Whilst Audio and video are still separated, it is a little different.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2019 Apr 19, 2019

Hmmm, i never heard about that program before. Can you confirm if Premiere Rush have suport to advanced editing tools like ultrakey / opacity control / color corrector? If its easier to edit there and i could get the work done with quality it worth a try. i just cant waste time trying useless programs like i did with vegas and filmora bcz i just have till monday to finish this.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

This is just the way professional editors work.  Video tracks on top, audio on bottom.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

Ok, At this point i got it very clear. The question is: as professional how do you deal with multiple tracks with chromakey to compose one scene? bcz you need to sinc the audio but there are too many tracks... i get confused all the time, thats my problem. its a 45 minutes episode and i have to end the job till monday. Im kind of desperated right now

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LEGEND ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

Normally, actors aren't shot separately like that.  So you're starting off doing things odd.

For myself, I prefer to record audio in camera.  This keeps everything synced up.  But even without that, you can manually sync the audio to the video and "link" them together so they behave as one clip.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

man, its a mess here. the thing is that they dont have the same "timing"... they recorded without a marker or someting to make them keep the cronology... they just gave their lines and now that im editing this shit the lines are overlaping... im trying to sinc manually but its take forever. Im thinking about cut and sync on Vegas and then export the video and import to premiere again to make the effects... i fear to compromise quality but if I dont act quickly I wont be able to have it done on time

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LEGEND ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

If you are having trouble seeing the relationship between the audio and video components of a clip on the timeline, try using the Label function to give the clips distinctive colors, so you can see the related clips easier:

Screen Shot 2019-04-20 at 10.10.29 AM.png

Also, you can scroll the audio track portion of the timeline up or down to hide or reveal tracks to simplify the view:

Screen Shot 2019-04-20 at 10.11.06 AM.png

MtD

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LEGEND ,
Apr 20, 2019 Apr 20, 2019

To be honest with you, the footage was shot improperly.  I'd refuse the job until it was done correctly.  Trying to "fix" what was mucked up on set will be a major headache.

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