I need help...

[Chuy - Jesuso]

Hi Everyone!

I am trying to learn the ropes of using the different apps that adobe offers.  I am actually in the videography business and a friend of mine was using adobe Encoder, After effects and Encore to create menus for a blu ray disc and eventually produce a Blu ray disc.

First off, what happened with Encore?  Based on what I have searched, Encore is no longer in development, and they made it part of Premiere.  The thing is that you need to use an old version of Premiere to Use Encore.  My question is what do you use now to produce blu ray discs if you want to use the latest version of Premiere?  Do you just load up the old Premiere?

Also, I need help to use color grading.  I just noticed a video that looks amazing.  the link is down bellow.

Martha & Tyler's Wedding in Laredo Texas on Vimeo

I pretty much want my video to look like that.  How can I get that kind of "movie" look?

If anyone can be willing to guide me through some color correcting and also advise on how they are producing their discs please let me know.  I would be very grateful for your support.  I have a google account where I can share my clips with you.

Thank you all for your time!

[Averdahl]

I use Encore CS6 and Premiere Pro CC2019 so there is possible to use them together. (So no, i don´t use Premiere Pro CS6.)

From Premiere Pro CC2019 i export the timeline using the H.264 Blu-ray exporter and import those files into Encore as a timeline. What you can´t do with CC2019+Encore CS6 is to use Dynamic Link. But that is not a problem since exporting the assets gives you a smoother workflow than Dynamic Link.

[excited_Genie16B8]

I used the following recently and found it quite capable.

TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6 - The Ultimate DVD / Blu-ray / AVCHD Authoring Tool - Pegasys Inc.

[Averdahl]

I used the following recently and found it quite capable.

TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6 - The Ultimate DVD / Blu-ray / AVCHD Authoring Tool - Pegasys Inc.

Agreed!

The downside is that creating custom menues and custom highlights are rather limited. When they fix that, i will retire Encore.

[Chuy - Jesuso]

So you used TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6 instead of Encore?

[excited_Genie16B8]

I did.  It was suitable for my needs.  I used the trial version, but will likely end up buying.  It's a one time $100, which for me makes financial sense as I no longer subscribe to Adobe CC, and have no access to Encore.

[R Neil Haugen]

As to the grading ... the very first thing to note is that the in-cam exposure was carefully controlled in nearly every scene of your linked vid. Always remember ... garbage in, garbage out. Ok ... so my job tends to be recovery for screwed up video, and I can do a lot ... yea ... but it's a TON more work, takes a TON more knowledge/skill/practice and time ... and can only approximate what you should have been able to do with a quarter the time if the media had been shot correctly. I have some criticisms, as the WB should have been better controlled in-cam for the dressing scenes (too yellow) or corrected after. But ... are they gonna complain? Probably not. So ... ship.

Next, the person handling that vid tended to get to a sorta 'nice' color in processing and then balance the two forms of contrast ... saturation and contrast ... to get images that have some depth from the darks and color from sat. Think of those dance/reception scenes.

That again takes some practice and eye-training. And knowledge of how scopes work because as marvelous an instrument as the Mark I Eyeball is, that thing is always a relative tool. Scopes give you hard data. Matching shots takes a lot of understanding hard video data ... then subtle artistry for the polishing touch.

And ... they were putting this out as a commercial product, clearly they have a "good enough" limit for work, and as soon as they hit "good enough" moved on to the next clip. Which indicates a sensible professional at work. Hit "good enough" for the project, and shipped.

Learn to adapt and control 'natural' lighting. Quickly/efficiently. Learn to set the camera to get tight exposure and close to color ... again, quickly, efficiently, every shot. This save you from the need to rescue your media ... or pay someone to do so. Saves you time/money/heartache/stress, and gets the goods shipped to the nice people what pay your bills easier.

In video post grading, there's an order ...

1. neutralize all clips for natural appearing tonality and color (just to pretty good and MOVE ON.)
2. match shots within scenes understanding that pretty good is ... pretty good.
3. fix the worst special cases ... blown-out/clipped windows, off-colors in background, harsh skin ... but only the worst that must be fixed
4. consider an overall "feel" for the project and perhaps apply a unifying touch of fancy with Lumetri via an Adjustment Layer over the whole sequence, and/or give scenes a particular look/feel.
5. if you have any remaining time, maybe fix the next worst problem areas in clips
6. SHIP.

The first two steps, neutralize and shot-match, are to attempt to get as close to the feel that this was seen by a human eye, not a bunch of camera clips. Get everything neutral and matching, then you can do something quickly, easily, and reliably in step 4 to give a particular look or touch. During those I'm primarily concerned with my scopes, just checking the image on my confidence monitor for confirmation. RGB Parade for color casts/tints; Waveform YC (no luma) for tonal balance and distribution; Vectorscope YUV for color hue/intensity.

There's only about another 1200 pages to the full meal deal, of course. And of course, someone like Hullfish/Fowler and Alexis Van Hurkman have written some excellent books on grading across apps.

Colorist/Grading Book by Hullfish and Fowler

http://www.amazon.com/Color-Correction-Video-Second-Desktop/dp/0240810783/ref=la_B001JS0LHO_1_5?s=bo...

Van Hurkman Color Correction Handbook

https://www.amazon.com/Color-Correction-Handbook-Professional-Techniques-ebook/dp/B004KKXNTQ/ref=sr_...

Neil

[SAFEHARBOR11]

Encore - the underlying programming was licensed to Adobe from another company, which was bought out and subsequently that programming development was killed by the new owners, so no more new Encore versions.

When using Premiere CC, you still also have the option to download Premiere CS6, and doing so gets Encore CS6 installed at the same time. Premiere CS6 will exist alongside CC, so you can keep editing in CC, no problems.

Regarding the sample wed video clip - the camera has a lot to do with the end results. Many videographers are now using DSLR or mirrorless "still cameras" that also shoot video, the advantage usually being the large sensor with a "fast" lens can allow for a cinematic look with a shallow depth of field and great low light capabilities to get natural shots at dim reception venues without adding light. This can provide a different look than many small-sensor video cameras are capable of. Then of course there is the grading Neil alluded to.

Thanks

Jeff

[rodneyb56060189]

Your two questions:

Using Encore to make disks:

The last boxed version of Adobe Creative Suite had Encore as one of the programs included. Since then it was given the AX, when Adobe went to subscription only.

If you have current Adobe CC stuff you can download Encore as a separate program and use it with your current version of CC.

Just do as advised ( export for blue ray or DVD to a temp directory, use those files to populate Encore timeline, and do what you want from there ( chapters, fancy titles, links special behind the scene clips, etc. ). Get a book on encore to figure out how to use it, cause it gets complicated.

I use encore once in a blue moon, and I just do it to 'test' how something will look on TV via BD player ( color, etc.). Typically I export from Encore as an ISO and burn the disk with another program ( Encore does not burn the actual disk as well as other programs that can use the ISO file ).

Second Question:

That is a whole world of study and so on, but the posts above hit the nail on head.. To begin with shoot your stuff paying close attention to your color balance, exposure, and framing of shots.  Shot good stuff, get good stuff back.

[rodneyb56060189]

P.S.

when burning disks use re-recordable when you are 'experimenting' with how they come out ( as you learn how to use Encore) or you will end up with a million stupid worthless disks which is a waste of money. There is one brand of disk which was the 'best' in terms of quality... ( hang on... going to look in closet )…  Verbatim.

Make sure your BD player CAN play re-recordable disks. Not all players can ( especially those hooked up to TV's where you REALLY want to test your stuff ( due to remote control actions and how it looks on TV instead of computer )

Good luck !

[rodneyb56060189]

P.P.S.

Do NOT give or sell disks that are re-recordable or double sided. AND ( when burning via ISO by another program other than encore which is the best way ) make sure you FINALIZE the disk... That will make it a happy disk that can play on MOST players in the world on TV's and computers.

[rodneyb56060189]

Jim, if ( as  I believe you did ) you bought the last boxed version ( cs6) and still have the box ( with discs inside), then you can use that serial number stuff on the box to download all the CS6 stuff you want ( from the creative suite ).

It's just a little tricky cause adobe doesn't support the stuff and to get through the 'validation' process with your serial number makes you jump through a hoop or two. But it works. I got it on my new laptop ( only audition, bridge, and photoshop cause the PIG has the whole suite on it and the laptop is just a child of a lesser god, in terms of editing, etc.)

??

[excited_Genie16B8]

Jim, if ( as  I believe you did ) you bought the last boxed version

Funily enough, I found the boxed version of 5.5 sitting on a shelf about 30 minutes ago.  I pulled it out to see if I could install Encore.

[rodneyb56060189]

P.S. I have NEVER subscribed to CC, so that don't matter.

[R Neil Haugen]

Love the antediluvians among us ... most everything is subscription these days.

[rodneyb56060189]

p.s.

Jim, I forgot to mention.. the new laptop doesn't have a disc drive, to that's why I did download instead of using discs. I think what I did maybe was try to copy the discs to a usb stick, and install files to the laptop, and install that way, I forget. Duh.. but either way works as I got a few programs on the laptop. If you want I can try to install encore and tell you how I managed to do it, using my serial number.

??

[rodneyb56060189]

hehe.  Don't give up Neil, life is not geared toward what the masses 'accept' , but by what we make of it ourselves.

Jim, good going !   A suggestion:

When putting in the serial number and looking for the activation code via email, LEAVE THE WEB PAGE open that requires the activation, and open a NEW SESSION web page to get that email thing.. and THEN COPY PASTE it to your thing.. Hard to explain, but that's the way it has worked for me. Half the time you can't tell if something is a zero or a letter O, stuff like that.

good luck

[rodneyb56060189]

Jim, P.S.

install photoshop too, and audition … I mean why not ? The stuff is good for what it was even back then... 

[rodneyb56060189]

My brain cells are coming alive little by little. There was probably SOMETHING ( maybe after effects ? ) that just wouldn't be happy with win 10... so no big deal. If you need everything now for current OS then the wonderful subscription is the only option with Adobe.

Let us know what happens

[neil wilkes · Accepted solution]

It's difficult to mark any one post here as the correct answer to your original questions because there are 2 questions, so let's give it a try:

Firstly, the "correct" answer to the second part - how to get a certain look - was covered beautifully in the third reply here (by R Neil Haugen) and whilst it may look daunting, that is exactly what you need to start doing for grading. Remember too that grading used to be a separate job when authoring houses still actually cared. These days it is far more likely to be some happy herbert somewhere slapping on a stock filter for a "movie look" using presets rather than someone taking the time & effort along with the rather steep learning curve that good grading requires.

It's a superbly written response & should be isolated and made a sticky IMO.

The second part - an answer to your first question - involved what to use if not Encore.

This is far more difficult to answer as there is no single answer. The TMPGEnc tool listed in response 2 (by Jim Simon) will get a rather rough & ready Blu-ray image done, but you can run foul of the rules here extremely easily.

This is because to the best of my knowledge, that tool cannot output a correctly formatted BDCMF replication master. I cannot stress the importance of this strongly enough, as if you create your final product on BD-R then the Blu-ray specifications state categorically that you cannot - repeat cannot sell this as Blu-ray because it is considered by Sony to be what they call "non compliant product" so it must not be sold as Blu-ray, must not use the term "Blu-ray disc" or use any of the Blu-ray logos or trademarks in the advertising copy (online or offline), on the packaging or on the disc itself. If you ignore this and Sony find out they could very well order all copied withdrawn & destroyed.

Why? Because Blu-ray mandates the use of AACS copy protection in all replicas (this is why HD-DVD was killed off, as Sony sold the major film studios on Blu-ray in 2 ways - firstly by promising an unbreakable copy protection system that would end the "scourge of piracy" forever, and secondly by literally bribing the studios with loads of money to sign a Blu-ray only exclusive deal) and not only is this brutally expensive to implement (it literally doubles the replication costs) but the content owner will also require an AACS site license. It used to be the case (and I do not know if it still is or not) that you could work around the site license necessity by hiring an authoring house that owns it's own content producers site license.

So in summary whilst the TMPGEnc tool is fine for home use, using it for commercial titles is a huge risk. This is mentioned in the small print on the main website under "Specifications" where we read the following in note *5:

This application cannot process a Blu-ray (BDAV/BDMV) protected by a Copyright or anti-copy enforcement system.

Which in plain English means "for home use only".

NB - for DVD-Video titles there is no mandated copy protection system, so both ISO masters & folder masters as well as DVD-R masters (I am unsure if a DVD+R master is acceptable given it is also non compliant product) are acceptable by some factories for use as replication masters.

There was also the full spec "DoStudio" tool, originally developed by NetBlender, who were bought out by Sony Creative Software who promptly killed it off as fast as they could before finally killing themselves off a couple of years back, selling some assets to Magix software and discontinuing the rest.

I do not know if Sony's own Blu-Print is still selling new licenses or not.

The only full-spec tools still in development are - oddly enough - the Scenarist tools - with both Scenarist-SD and Scenarist-BD both still in active development and fully supported. Which is seriously ironic, given that we lost Encore because Rovi bought Sonic Solutions out and closed them down - bear in mind that Sonic Solutions owned the rights to the Scenarist platform as well as the authorcore used in Encore, so when Rovi shut them down everything vanished. It ended up with some of the people who used to work for Sonic Solutions creating Scenarist LLC and starting over, including active development - so it is all now available again and I still wonder if the Encore AuthorCore would be license-able again - If I were a gambling man I would place bets on this being the case too, so I believe the field is wide-open for Encore to be kick-started back into life again should anyone at Adobe care enough to try & make it happen, but given the AME Native H.264 Blu-ray codec has been broken for 2 years I am not going to hold my breath.

For regular DVD there are a few options, but the one I would recommend is Media Chance Labs DVD-Lab Pro 2.

Whilst this one is no longer in active development it is still supported and the DVD specs have not changed so this is not an issue. It also has very good support forums, with people who know this tool inside-out on hand for any issues. It is incredibly powerful too, with not only an abstraction layer system that works but full scripting support that can be used either as an adjunct to the abstraction layer, but also a fully independent system allowing you to write your own code from start to finish using a modular system that is very easy to get started with.

It is a truly superb authoring system.