Multicam unusable

[pahegi]

I am currently working on a project with 9 Multicam cameras. A number of errors make Premiere unusable for this.

I have a "Multicam" sequence in which the 9 camera tracks are located. This sequence is then integrated as a clip in the "Main" sequence, and Multicam is activated for the clip.

The first problem: When I select a clip from one of the nine camera tracks in the "Multicam" sequence, the corresponding effect settings are shown for the selected clip. As soon as I change even one value in the effect settings or click with the mouse, the effect settings disappear, but the clip is still selected. I first have to deselect the clip and then select it again to make the effect settings visible again.

The second problem: I want to correct the colors of the individual camera tracks in the "Multicam" sequence. As long as I don't use keyframes, this works fine. But as soon as I create a single keyframe, no value is applied and only the value that was used before the keyframe was created is used.

I have tested the whole thing with versions 23.6.2, 24.1 and 25.4, with all versions I have these problems.
I am testing on a Macbook Pro M1 Max 14" with 64GB RAM (Apple Silicon) mit macOS Monterey 12.7.2.

With these problems, Premiere is no longer usable for me and I have to switch to other software, although I would prefer to stay with Adobe.

[R Neil Haugen]

On the color, what are you keyframing?

Each camera should be corrected separately, ideally ... then applied as a Source effect, so the correction applies to every use of any part of the clip in the project. So ... you don't correct mulitple sections of the same clip. Just once per clip.

[pahegi]

That's exactly what I do. In the "Multicam" sequence with all cameras, I correct the colors (mainly the white balance) so that in the edited version in the "Main" sequence, all clips from the same camera have the same color correction.
But when correcting the colors in the "Multicam" sequence, keyframes are ignored. This is most certainly a bug.

[R Neil Haugen]

Explain what you're doing in the multicam sequence, and the steps in keyframing. Which could only work for each separate clip, of course. Not across clips. Which does catch some people by surprise, as it "looks" like a multicam is one clip on the sequence. 

[pahegi]

I think it's easier to show it with Screenshots.

This is the Sequence where I synced all my Cameras and Audio. Also all of the Color Correction happens in this Sequence, to later affect all multicam-cutted clips. I'm only using one single Lumetri-Effect per Camera. The color correction works, when I'm not using Keyframes. I'm correcting the white balance using Lumetri.

This is the "Main" Sequence. Here i have imported the "Multicam" Sequence and activated Multicam. I'm NOT doing color correction in this sequence, because then it would not affect all clips of one camera. Of course all color correction of e.g. cam 4 in the used "Multicam" Sequence affects all of the clips in this sequence, where i cutted to camera 4. But when I'm starting to use Keyframes, it won't work anymore.

[R Neil Haugen]

Ahh ... the keyframing is a sequence effect, not a clip effect. So it goes with that clip, on that sequence, but doesn't carry over to another sequence, as a Source effect would.

[pahegi]

I don't understand what you mean by the difference between source and sequence effects. Could you explain this in more detail?

I am applying the effect to a clip in the "Multicam" sequence. Accordingly, it is a clip effect? And because this clip is then used in the main sequence in the multicam cut, the effect should also be visible here. And it is. But ONLY if NO keyframes are used.

[R Neil Haugen]

Sure!

"Source" effects are those applied to either a clip/s in a bin, or in a sequence, after clicking on the Source tab at the top of the ECP ... effects control panel.

They apply to all instances of the clip in the project. But due to their nature of intended use, they don't have "time" ... at least as far as I've ever been able to test out. The effect is applied in a constant application to that clip.

So you can't use keyframes with an effect used as a Source clip effect. It doesn't "have time", so ... it can't change over time, right?

Sequence effects ... effects applied to clips on a sequence ... are by nature, occuring in "time", as the sequence plays. Therefore, yes, they can be keyframed.

The last time I talked with a dev over this was some years back now, and they didn't see that much use for most users of keyfameable Source effects.

As the dev noted, if you need to keyframe something over a clip, but want to effectively use that as a 'Source' effect ... apply the effect to a clip on a sequence. Do your keyframed effect, then do a full render & replace of that clip to a good mezanine codec, maybe ProRes422 or a decent DNx or Cineform ... and use that clip in the project file bin instead of the original clip.

As far as he was concerned, it's about the same amount of work for the user, and completely fills that need.

So  when I've a clip that I want to 'fix' and need it keyframed, that's what I've done.

[pahegi]

Thank you for the comprehensive explanation! This was actually a feature that I wasn't aware of before. I've only ever used the sequence effects by default.

However, I also used sequence effects when I had my problem and still both problems with the keyframes and the disappearing selections occur.

[R Neil Haugen]

I've not had keyframes disappear from a sequence. Had a couple times they got a 'kink' in them, and had to delete a bunch of them before I could get the movement working correctly again.

So ... if you've got keyframes on a clip on a sequence, have saved the project, and they still disamappeared on you ... that would be an issue.

[pahegi]

They are not disappearing, the just don't affect the colors of the video, even if I put in very high or low values.

[R Neil Haugen]

So manually changing the values you see the change, but keyframing the same Lumetri effect on the same clip doesn't ... ?

[pahegi]

I think it was due to some timing issues when using the synchronized source view and program view, I'm still a bit confused. I have now created all the Lumetri effects and keyframes in a different sequence for the same clips and then copied them over to the multicam sequence, so it works.

[R Neil Haugen]

That's correct. For effects applied on the sequence,  those do not show in the Source monitor, only the Program monitor and Transmit Out.

[pahegi]

That is correct. However, I have applied the effects to a sequence, which in turn is used in a multicam sequence. And I am watching the multicam sequence in the source monitor, so the effects should be visible there.

[R Neil Haugen]

The Source monitor would not be showing the multicam as the 'source' there, but would consider the original clip as the source.

Multicams are used sort of as a clip, but aren't really. Ergo, they don't show as "the source".